I am lucky, therefore game is fine

thankfully, real life isn't one giant lottery, Miská.

loot is part of what ARPG is all about.
when you need to get that loot from somewhere else, because doing heroic ARPG feats just isn't enough to even feel like you're progressing towards something - that's a fail in my book.

PoE is a truly unique game.
it got many ARPG concepts so right - and even added great novelties - while at the same time failing so hard on some of the most basic ones.

it was Vio who said in this thread, that fucking you over with RNG on top of RNG (on top of even more RNG), is a means to keep you addicted.
maybe.
but there are better ways.
better things, the game already does.

"

johnKeys wrote:

thankfully, real life isn't one giant lottery, Miská.

loot is part of what ARPG is all about.
when you need to get that loot from somewhere else, because doing heroic ARPG feats just isn't enough to even feel like you're progressing towards something - that's a fail in my book.

PoE is a truly unique game.
it got many ARPG concepts so right - and even added great novelties - while at the same time failing so hard on some of the most basic ones.

I disagree, i think life is 1 big lottery. You could calculate everything in life to chance. I've met my wife by chance, do you know how much different my life would be if i wouldn't have met her.

I survived a housefire when i was 5years old. There was a quite a big chance there i would have never been able to discuss this with you right now ;)

I do agree however that if they want to push the game a certain way. They need to fully stand behind that philosophy and not do it half arsed. Like mapping, if they want to push the harder = more rewards theme what they did in 2.0. There should be more rewards.

"

Miská wrote:

You still haven't answered my question John. If someone would post here they did not have a wisdom scroll drop in 3000h of playing you would believe them?

I would ..... if they supplied the honest information on the conditions that led to this possibility with such a low probability manifesting itself.

I can in theory play 5000 hours of POE from character creation right up to the first hostile engagement or breakable object,chest and ALT/F4 and never see a wisdom scroll.In theory I could do this indefinitely.

=P

"

ScrotieMcB wrote:

[Removed by Support]

omg, the next one (beside charan) who forces me to lookup words in a dictionary ;)

on the matter: i don't think john is making something up, he just falsely connects the random outcome of rewards in poe with their overall sparseness.

"

johnKeys wrote:

----------------------------------------------

@RagnarokChu, looks like you're the only one who actually bothered reading.
(Scrotie: see what I did?)

earning with the 1.5k Fuses recipe? yes - but under a condition: where and how do you get these?

RockGod has this great phrase in his post:

"

RockGod wrote:

I play these types of games to build a strong character that wrecks stuff and I ended up feeling like a Hobo collecting pop bottles.

what is wrong about my wish, to not get complete vendor trash when I kill the game's final boss for the first time? I wasn't farming him. I wasn't face-rolling him with a char that can face-tank his map version. it was a long, tough fight and I died many times until he finally went down.
theoretically, it doesn't take a complicated algorithm to measure all of the above, and create some minor RNG bias.

and I don't expect him to rain Kaoms and Shavs all over the place when I do. that's something you people just can't get into that thick skull of yours.
I want risk/reward with RNG. and yes you can quote me on that.
RNG is what makes it fun.
too much RNG in too many places, is what makes it suck with very occasional "oh I just won the lottery" moments, instead of "earned it" ones.

you're talking about Torchlight and Borderlands? no "sword of game winning +3" there, so you will farm the final boss again. but no BS yellow trash even my leveling char can't use, either. plus a ton of blue low-base, one-socket ones the loot filter just hides.

one example. I can come up with a thousand more for every single part of the game.

and again, I like the game. heck I'm addicted to it.
it's that good. one of the best.
but the completely unprecedented amount and dependency on RNG, and the gigantic role the economy - just one feature, mind you - plays... make me rage.

I love games like you talk about, I play dragon age origins, baldur's gate, skyrim and endless amounts of single player rpgs.

But PoE is sadly not a handcrafted (in character vs monster) design type of ARPG. It falls into the trope of mostly RNG grind fest where you enjoy slot machine mechanics and being the best in an competitive environment.

Which is why I simply attempt to inform you that is it fruitless, PoE will never be that type of game that you are aiming for.

Even D3 which (I really like by the way and play equal amounts to PoE, you should give it a try and I'll even add you and play with you and walk you through the game) completely addresses all of your points and problems you have with PoE. Just try it out I swear.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-gRsRqP2JKg Hell this the latest patch

- Cube allows you complete control if your character along with deterministic ways to get the items you want + some rng. You can reroll items, upgrade items to unquies, covert crafting mats to one another, reroll set pieces to another one ect ect.

- Dyamanic go at your own pace end game with many different type of 100% completely ungated content that isn't menial or tedious to attempt to do. With much variety and semi randomly generated content.

-Items scale to your character class (would rarely drop you bows if your playing a melee class ect) and type you are playing and are rolled RNG within a range and hand crafted to compliment your class.

-Large variety of unquies with pronounce effects of your character

- Bosses drop good loot that scale with difficulty

- No trading

----

I play PoE to be able to trade, and have a general more hardcore playing experience with long term character advancement and massive build variety and choices within the game. As long with an old-school style experience and grinding to increase my e-peen with my rare items.

There is no arpg in-between balls to the wall casual fun D3 and what PoE is (for online arpgs). People posting in D3 to change something into what it will not be and PoE into what it will not be is fruitless. For example even if the final boss dropped something really good on average for his difficulty, game isn't hand design to not be imbalanced after that point. Drop a really good weapon and all content up to the boss and past that would be significantly easier if you get something slightly above average. After merc mali there is nothing more to the game but maps and the final boss is as hard as most of the early maps (68 to 72-74 range)

What I suggest is making compromising feedback that will make PoE more fun without changing it's original core gameplay experience.

Examples that succeeded -
- Deterministic crafting (masters)
- Loot filters
- Skill gems for all
- Buffs to skill gems early game which makes almost all skills usable from the start
- No ultra expensive build creating unquies
ect

From your point of view I would attempt going for a different type of end-game other then maps or some sort of extra type of crafting where bosses drop special parts that you can extra craft shit your items but makes it untradable or some shit.

"

johnKeys wrote:

earning with the 1.5k Fuses recipe? yes - but under a condition: where and how do you get these?

RockGod has this great phrase in his post:

"

RockGod wrote:

I play these types of games to build a strong character that wrecks stuff and I ended up feeling like a Hobo collecting pop bottles.

Assuming one buys fusings purely from Vorici for the 20% discount, it takes 1500/20=75 dailies to get a guaranteed 6L, at a cost of 4800 jewelers. Let's say you obtain half of these jewelers from the normal vendor trade-up at a rate of 2 alts, and half come from Elreon's dailies for another 20% discount, that's 8640 alts, or 115.2 per day for 75 days.

To be frank, 6 stacks of alts per day should be easily obtainable even for casual players, as long as they put in some time dedicated to farming bosses. These bosses don't even need to be particularly hard, just a good ratio of rare drops vs. time spent reaching+killing (Voll comes to mind as a balance of drops, ease, and XP).

All this also ignores the fusings that a player would obtain from just drops while slaying monsters. I'm really curious, would this be too much of a stretch for a SSF player? 75 days + time taken to get Vorici6 in the worst case scenario is certainly taxing for temp leagues, but in Standard?

"

grant_m wrote:

Casual players put in under 10 hours per week. Is that enough time to amass that many alts in 75 days?

Are you just making that up or that actually a thing?

"

grant_m wrote:

Casual players put in under 10 hours per week. Is that enough time to amass that many alts in 75 days?

1-2 hours per day farming bosses (and not being picky about what rares to pick up to ID) is enough to get 6 stacks of alts. Boring and repetitive, but enough.

E: Of course, assuming you do Vorici dailies, well, on a daily basis. +1 day for every daily missed converting jewelers to fusing at Vorici's discounted rate.

You can make 0,5-1ex daily in 3-4hrs just by picking currency that drops and doing chaos/regal recipe. Even if you find 1ex per day a bit too much due to current inflation 0,5ex is more than achievable. No trading or luck or RNG involved.

So you can get a non-corrupt, non-tabularasa 6L armor within 3-4days of BAD LUCK (since we didnt take into account any actual drops you might have these days).

When i started playing PoE and was a noob that didnt even knew how links work i got to lvl50 and quit due to the game being too hard cause of my lack of knowledge and how to play the game properly.

So im failing to understand what are you guys talking about.
There are many builds that can be self-found or as cheap as 1ex so there are no actual "gates" to stop you from playing the game.
There are some other niche builds that require specific items to work and they are more expensive.
With a bit of patience you can farm the currency required even for these builds without any RNG involved.
RNG might help you to get there faster but cant stop you from actually getting there.

Im failing to see the point of this thread. I feel like im reading "i want to play a Mjölner build. I havent had a Mjölner dropped so i cant play it. Someone else had a Mjölner drop therefore the game is wrong"