[2.2] A Storm of Ice and Fire - Avatar of Fire CI Whispering Ice - Uber Viable!

"

Zed_ wrote:

"

TheAnuhart wrote:

Thought I'd update my 'A Dance of Ice and Fire, Whispering Doom' version at 98 with a few changes.

Interesting variant, really shows how everything is better with frenzy charges. :)

I disagree with using Added Cold over Conc Effect. Added Cold does almost nothing at your levels of Int. For 5 points you could pick up the 2 area notables you're right next to and keep your current radius even with Conc Effect. Off the top of my head should be at least 25% more damage at the cost of some ES, depending on what you drop.

Also, have you considered picking up 10% curse effectiveness in the curse wheel for 1 extra point?

I hit 99 and was considering the curse effect for the point as well as a few other options. The one I went with was dropping 8% mana for 0.8% regen 99 tree.

I also slightly changed some jewels, remaining monster curse overcapped, giving a little more ES and dropping my damage ever so slightly.

As for the conc v AC thing: It's something I've debated and shoved in the closet a while back, points are so tight, hell If I had 2 points to play with I'd consider taking the Mara 1.8 regen (with the above point giving 0.8 regen for 8% mana). If I had 5 points I'd be tempted to take the Duelist 1% regen, too (getting 20 (30+) int with it).

I mean, it's tempting, the ave damage atm without either AC or CE is 3,216.7.
With Added Cold 3,794.6, that's 577.9 added, or 18%.
With CE 5,168.3, that's 1,951.6 added, or a whopping 60% from a lvl 19 CE and there would be another 20% increased modifier that comes with the 5 nodes but I'd also be trading int for those 5 nodes. But, 5 nodes TEEEEEAAAAAM wtf!!!!!???

I dunno, I had put the niggling itch behind me as the 5 nodes were pretty much impossible to justify when I first made the build (like 10 levels back) but there's a valid argument that they are now and if I can justify losing the int + ES, but at the same time, do I want more regen for that trade or more damage. And the 99-100 grind isn't one I want to start dropping too much ES in.

What to do, what to do.

Edit, OK gave it a go.
Whatever I did I was gonna drop below the 1600 int threshold (duration) so the most ES efficient way was to drop Alacrity and its jewel soc and drop the 0.8% life regen I gained with my last point, routing through the mana again.

Tree.



So average damage is at 5,083.75, up from 3,800.
ES at 11,065, down from 11,407.
Lost 0.8% life regen.
Lost 150 mana.
Skill cost 10% more mana.
Skill duration is 5.44, down from 5.66.

I really felt the loss of mana along with the 10% increase in cost, to run clarity I'd need to drop AA, or HoI or Empower. The alternative is to go back to Rally Cry instead of End Cry. Totally solves all mana issues, waaaay OTT mana regen with Rally but I do miss having ECs on demand rather than only from Warlord's.

On the bright side, the damage is between like 5,300 and 5,700 in normal play depending on the Rally density, going way over 6k if you fully abuse it.

So it boils down to 40%+ more average damage at the cost of 342 ES, 0.22 sec skill duration, 0.8% life regen and on demand ECs, during normal set up mapping when comparing to the set up I had.

That's... kinda worth I guess, but I do miss EC. EC can still go in for curse immune maps.

So I've been away from path for a while now, but having heard about the new expansion, I am very interested in trying this build again with the new Ascendancy classes and uniques.

Look forward to an update sometime after the expansion launches. I am hoping this build can be pushed to new heights of power!

So with the new jewel, Izaro's Turmoil, how do you think it compares in terms of efficiency with FM/BFS, or even compared to other rare jewels? Snowforged on a jewel?

"

x0Kadabra0z wrote:

So with the new jewel, Izaro's Turmoil, how do you think it compares in terms of efficiency with FM/BFS, or even compared to other rare jewels? Snowforged on a jewel?

Izaro's is on par with a decent 3-property rare jewel, but will be outclassed by the best 4-property rares that have 40+% damage and intelligence/resistances/cast speed. Definitely useful if cheap, especially in newer leagues where good jewels are hard to come by.

What's the expensive parts of this build? I have all of the uniques - but does "survivable" energy shield equipment end up being super expensive?

"

Choirandvice wrote:

What's the expensive parts of this build? I have all of the uniques - but does "survivable" energy shield equipment end up being super expensive?

The uniques are the most expensive part unless you want extremely high-end chest/helmet/boots/gloves. 700 ES chests can be had for very reasonable prices and are more than adequate for most purposes.

Hi,

first of all thank you for the great guide. I had a lot fun playing with it.

I have a question concerning 2.1:
What do you think about dropping Avatar of Fire + Snowforged, investing into Areanodes and using Conc Effect (permanently) + Controlled Destruction instead of Faster Casting + Cold to Fire to gain 2 more-Multipliers?
I see that doubledipping Cold and Fire Damage is a huge benefit concerning jewels, but i cant imagine a more-Multiplier doesnt make up for it.

"

relat1ve wrote:

Hi,

first of all thank you for the great guide. I had a lot fun playing with it.

I have a question concerning 2.1:
What do you think about dropping Avatar of Fire + Snowforged, investing into Areanodes and using Conc Effect (permanently) + Controlled Destruction instead of Faster Casting + Cold to Fire to gain 2 more-Multipliers?
I see that doubledipping Cold and Fire Damage is a huge benefit concerning jewels, but i cant imagine a more-Multiplier doesnt make up for it.

I kept both seeing as the tree changed and they took out Freeze. Lost 5% freeze but gained a boat load of DPS. I had 4600 with increased area of effect and when I swapped it out for the new controlled destruction (at level 11 with 20q), my DPS skyrocketed to 6300. I snagged Blast Radius and Amplify to net back half the lost area of effect (plus add on some nifty area damage). I'm sitting at 6100 DPS now with the area nodes and my controlled destruction is only at level 14. The gem gains 1% spell damage per level, so I have another 7% I can net. I don't think I'd run concentrated effect full time though. Having coverage really helps clear speeds and generally QOL.

All in all, 2.1 was a huge buff to this build (and I imagine most spell casters that don't rely on crit), especially the cold variant I'm running. Still looking through the changes, but my build also skyrocketed in mana regen, and I know have way more than I need. And for what it's worth, crit chance only dropped from 7.5% to 5%.

Here's my existing tree for anyone interested.

2.1 was a huge boon in terms of mana sustainability for this build. Characters of all levels should have a much easier time now!

I haven't crunched the numbers on the new support gems, but it is possible that a more optimal gem setup now exists.


As for permanently running conc effect - If you do not intend to run Uber Atziri, then this is a grand idea. If you are doing uber runs, you will want the smaller AoE for maximum DPS on bosses.

The new Skyforth unique boots added in this path present an interesting possibility. I'm not 100% sure how they work, but they could potentially work as an alternative to Unyielding Stance in this build.

Agreed. I'm loving 2.1 for this build. My controlled destruction is now at level 15 and subsequent one gives me about 60 DPS on the tooltip. The new gem is an absolute beast. At max level, I should cap out at just shy of 6500 dps.

At the end of the day, I lost 5% freeze, 20% area coverage, 2.5% crit chance, and 1% movement speed, but I gained 40% more raw damage. More mana and more mana regen too on account of the changes to heroes in general. Ice storm is also cheaper to cast (81, down from 88), not that it matters.

Level 78 maps feel like 72s.

This build is insanely good now, not that it wasn't before. I'm a damage nut, but with some jiggering, I'm pretty sure we can retain our existing DPS and double down on more defense. But I tend to subscribe to the notion that dead things cannot kill you.

With regards to Skyforth, I'm betting that's why they nerfed Heart of Oak.

LOL