Life Leech 2.0

Path of mitigation now. Mitigation is just like Life leech reciprocal or whatever. More mit less LL you need.

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sidtherat wrote:

sorry to say but this is 'no investment'. 4 nodes + 2*mana leech on gear is pitiful investment.


ice crash is a hybrid skill - cuts leech in half. thats first. you adapt to it or use another skill.

Stopped after this. Once again, do you have any idea how leech works? Seriously?

Ice Crash being Hybrid does NOTHING to leech, let alone halve it.

Let's say I'm using Warlord's Mark.
If it were 2%, it would have a possible leech of 300 per second (15k damage). THIS DOES NOT MATTER due to ACTIVE LEECH caps.
Think of of this as POSSIBLE LEECH - it calculates maximum possible leech, depending on leech %, and damage done


So, 300 is the maximum possible mana leech I can recover per second (2% of 15,000).
Now comes the Leech Rate, to see how much Leech I'm actually getting.

Think of this as ACTIVE LEECH - this is calculated by 2% of your maximum mana, times the number of hits you're dealing.

IF I were at the Leech Rate cap of 20%, that would mean that I am at 2% * 10 hits.
AKA 2% of my mana times 10. (2% of 723 = 14.46 * 10 = 147.


If my POSSIBLE LEECH is 300, but ACTIVE LEECH only gives me a max of 147, I'm wasting 150 mana/s.
To gain the other 153 POSSIBLE LEECH, it would require getting 750 more mana. This would total almost 1500 mana.

This is IF I'M HITTING 10 TIMES A SECOND. I AM NOT. I am hitting a SINGLE attack TWICE per second. This means due to the fact that I'm using a slow, single target attack, I'm only gaining (120 POSSIBLE LEECH)
(14.46 ACTUAL LEECH times 2 attacks) = 28.92 ACTIVE LEECH per second.

If I were to be hitting 10 mobs, I'm actually losing 27 mana per second, but it isn't worth using another piece of Mana Leech, or another Passive Node for 0.2% more, when I could throw it into raw mana, and gain more benefit.

29 ACTIVE LEECH is HALF of the cost of ONE single target, non-aoe attack being recovered.



Like I said, having to get EVERY SINGLE NODE around the tree, to even have a POSSIBLE chance to sustain a single target, slow attacking skill.
Gaining 1500 mana on a Melee Character JUST to have single target ability that hits ONE TIME, instead of just equipping a gem that has multiple hits, or adding multistrike, is COMPLETE B.S.

"XX of PHYSICAL damage leeched as mana"

your build failed, not mine. so ask yourself if asking if I understand how this mechanic works is the thing to do.

you are not using warlods. because replacing Assassins Mark cuts dps. what you invested heavily into is the dps greed. builds like that do not work in 2.0.

btw what you are doing now is trying to prove that planes cant fly after being flown in one. Youve made build decisions and now have to suffer the consequences. Twisting numbers and trying to prove something wont help as mana simply works for others and does not work for you. You want to get along with 2 affixes and 4 passives (on a 6link with a high-base cost skill) and see any other investment 'CONSIDERABLE'

it is all-dps build. 1.3 build. it does not work in 2.0. prepare to make even more 'considerable' investment or spent lots and lots of time posting about how it does not work (for you)

Yeah, you have no idea how little Warlord's Mark is helping you. You're probably 50% overkill on your maximum Leech Rate.

Your build works because you're using Molten Strike and reaching the Leech Rate instantly.

Woopty-fucking-doo, if I equip Molten Strike, so can I.

If I had known I were arguing against someone that had no fucking idea what they were talking about, I would have stopped a page back.




Anyone that actually knows how leech works, have an opinion on the slow attacking, single hit skills having issues with the current Mana Leech?

TL:DR for people that know how Leech works, for 2 attacks per second, on one single mob, it would require about 2,500 mana, and 2,500 physical damage to sustain SINGLE TARGET leech, with Warlord's Mark and ~50 mana per attack.

a) using ice crash as a single target skill is a Question number one
b) your attack speed is not exactly low
c) you did minimal investment to support 6Link and expected 1.3 outcome. you've failed
d) instead of thinking a bit harder you came here claiming that mechanics do not work

e) i can replace molten strike with ice crash (i do not use warlords by the way) and have absolutely no problems sustaining it

f) you suffer from severe "DPS Greed". you have no problems investing 80+ points into dps yet 4 is already called considerable.

adapt or.. well.. continue raging i think

"

sidtherat wrote:

a) using ice crash as a single target skill is a Question number one
b) your attack speed is not exactly low
c) you did minimal investment to support 6Link and expected 1.3 outcome. you've failed
d) instead of thinking a bit harder you came here claiming that mechanics do not work

e) i can replace molten strike with ice crash (i do not use warlords by the way) and have absolutely no problems sustaining it

f) you suffer from severe "DPS Greed". you have no problems investing 80+ points into dps yet 4 is already called considerable.

adapt or.. well.. continue raging i think

I'm not playing the molten strike, static strike, screen-sized Ice Crash meta! Waa, I'm not some shitty meta-follower! My molten strike 1.3 7 link meta works, and your not-meta 2.0 Ice Crash build doesn't because you suck, and theres nothing wrong with the Leech Mechanics that I don't even understand!

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sidtherat wrote:

and trying to prove something wont help as mana simply works for others and does not work for you.

Claiming this as you use molten strike, COMPLETELY OBLIVIOUS to how leech even works, is just crazy. It truly is.

Seriously, I want to know how much money it took for you to buy all of your items, because you have so little sense of game mechanics, it's unreal. You've had 9 days to learn them, I suggest doing so before calling someones build out again. (In terms of Leech, anyways)

made my day. thanks.

outcome of this is that my build(s) work, your - do not. and you are lecturing me? thanks for the laugh

have a nice day

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sidtherat wrote:

made my day. thanks.

outcome of this is that my build(s) work, your - do not. and you are lecturing me? thanks for the laugh

have a nice day

Yes. My build absolutely works.
Unless I start using Ice Crach and big boy mechanics that you have no comprehension of, and likely never will. Considering all you're concerned about is YOUR WRONG! YOUR WRONG! Instead of learning how wrong you are yourself, and educating yourself on why you are wrong.

No matter what way you twist it, anyone close to my situation REQUIRES TWO THOUSAND FIVE HUNDRED MANA to keep up with their one hit, on one monster, twice a second, at a mana cost around 55.

Plain as that.
It's how it's programmed into the game.

If you can't see the issue with that, stop playing meta builds. That isn't how you find issues with the game.

so mana regeneration does not exist? :) who is oblivious to mechanics around here?

it is you

it is you and your greed that allows for uber-stacking damage nodes but prevents you from actually spending anything on mana (4 nodes for a 6link is a GREED, GREED).

2.0 punishes greed. hard.

btw - if the build does not work it is ALWAYS the authors fault. mechanics are what they are. adapt to them or fail. your idea about what mechanics SHOULD be matters not from the game' perspective

still laughing

leech made some greedy players suffer and that is a good thing. the only bad side of 2.0 leech changes is CI/ES leech that simply is a bit to weak and there are no suitable nodes around to augment it.

What kind of skills can actually be useful with LL ? I feel like there is not that much of those seeing how LL is thing only for AoE Physical skills, correct me if I'm wrong. The skills that are actually pretty viable wtih LL I think are :

- Cleave (yes, even tho it was nerfed)
- Cyclone
- Reave

And guess what... they were always pretty strong skills to begin with.

I really wonder tho, what do you think is a considerable investment? I would like if you could answer to this question with some actual numbers or even better.. maybe link passive tree of your character as an example of the well made LL build.

Imo, I feel like LL was hit too hard, but yeah that's because I really liked using Blood Rage since it gave quite considerable leech even for life based characters without any leech nodes invested, not like there was that many of those, especially for class like Duelist. Even with notable passive (passive near fortify cluster), life regen able to sustain blood rage by itself and the blood rage life leech buff I didn't feel too much of an effect. On the other hand I had Ele skill on so yeah... that's the other thing.

There is other problem now tho, LL isn't really comparable to LGoH right now. I'm pretty sure that unless you're using the 3 skills I written above (and maybe sweep/melee splash+heavy strike/dual strike/double strike) you're really better off with life gain on hit, especially molten strikers which are able to get back tons of life back due to that thing, especially if you can link that with DW Claws or something.

I'm not really great player myself tho, had couple characters reaching the maps, never ran Atziri myself nor I didn't feel any successful at any of my builds honestly.