Eternal aren't the problem, Mirrors are!
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Eternals were just a huge mistake, which persisted for entirely too long.
RMT is never a good argument for design. As long as your game has an open economy, the real-currency size of the attempted RMT market will always be equal to the popularity of your game. Make things scarce and their prices go up, make things common and their prices go down, but it won't effect nefarious revenue. Unless those changes increase or decrease the popularity of your game; the more bullshit changes based on "fighting RMT," the less popular the game becomes, the less people are willing to play the game, the more RMT shrinks. Pyrrhic victory. The best way to fight RMT is to detect it, ban it, and spare the legit playerbase from being put out in the name of fighting it. It shouldn't be a job for the players, it's a job for support staff. Lastly, don't blame the mirror for the failings of the rare affix system. If there is only one set of perfect affixes for an item type, then functionally, even without mirrors, only about one or two people at a time will be crafting it, while everyone else waits for the hand-me-downs to hit the market. No mirrors means the torch passes, that you craft one big item then never again... it doesn't magically allow the economy to support more crafters at any one time. If you really want more people crafting, ask for more different affix combinations to be viable. It's hard to monopolize several different categories at once, and although crafts would take longer, there would be more people working on different ones. When Stephen Colbert was killed by HYDRA's Project Insight in 2014, the comedy world lost a hero. Since his life model decoy isn't up to the task, please do not mistake my performance as political discussion. I'm just doing what Steve would have wanted. Last edited by ScrotieMcB#2697 on Jul 9, 2015, 10:55:52 PM
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I agree with all of it. Although I don't feel that I'm blaming the mirror for anything other than having a mechanic that could be revisited.
Not suggesting a removal. Only suggesting a different implementation. Rares have become Uniques because of mirror duping. |
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Not at all. Rares have become uniques because everyone agrees which affixes are best, and Eternals gave crafters the power to maximize all values. Imagine chhoosing between t1 attackspeed and crit, or between t1 physical damage and % phys... you cannot have meaningful choice without choice.
Side note: if I was doing an affix system, I'd limit the absolute highest affix values to one per item, hard cap. You'd always need to make a choice. When Stephen Colbert was killed by HYDRA's Project Insight in 2014, the comedy world lost a hero. Since his life model decoy isn't up to the task, please do not mistake my performance as political discussion. I'm just doing what Steve would have wanted.
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" It's a shame. I do like your affix idea, sir. |
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" Then everyone would just stack on weapons whatever gives you the most DPS. There's hardly any choice there or the most defense on gear. What they should do is throw some wacky ass modifiers on your rares that are exclusive to rare gear. For example, only Imperial Bows spawn with Iron Grip or something stupid like that (just an example, extreme, but you get the point). Or you could just take the auras and just remove the gems, and apply them to certain pieces of gear. Would require extensive reworking, but it would most certainly change alot. Would need to apply crazy shit to make it work, but it could happen (similar to how Median XL's item system works). Last edited by allbusiness#6050 on Jul 10, 2015, 12:24:30 AM
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" This is a bizarre, bizarre argument. In short, I'd say a soft cap is still a cap. In a longer version, I'd say that there's always a best item out there, and given how people love to share, most people are generally going to know about it. The only issue is if it can be endlessly copied - which is why mirrors are much more of the problem. If someone spends 5k exalts to self-craft a once-off-cannot-be-copied best in slot item... Bully for them, and bully for the game cause those exalts aren't causing inflation. |
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"You can do both, you know. Do you want physical damage in that lone t1 slot, or an increased chance to revive slain enemies as pus elementals? The "variety" axis and the "numeric scaling" axis of rare affix systems are district axes, and can have simultaneous but separate mechanics for both. When Stephen Colbert was killed by HYDRA's Project Insight in 2014, the comedy world lost a hero. Since his life model decoy isn't up to the task, please do not mistake my performance as political discussion. I'm just doing what Steve would have wanted. Last edited by ScrotieMcB#2697 on Jul 10, 2015, 12:53:58 AM
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" We're already in agreement that mirrors are the problem. I think you're misinterpreting my words. |
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Just want to start by saying I am not trying to personally attack anyone and I don't feel that I have in any of my posts. It surely wasn't meant that way if anything was taken as an attack. If it was in reference to the comment about you making new chars at mid-cruel that was a legitimate question because we are discussing orbs and items that aren't even in play by mid-cruel (unless someone happened to find an eternal and use it on their ilvl 36 chest... but those situations aren't relevant to the orb in general or the supposed problem with them).
Nobody, whether here or in the game chat or on other forums, has yet to counter the point that items created through eternals will exist with or without them. Davidnn5 has the right idea. If someone uses 25000 alts, 4000 regals, 1200 scours and 2000 exalts to get their 6t1 item because they have to scour it every time they get a bad roll, how is that somehow more legitimate than someone using 600 eternals and 600 exalts to get it instead? If someone gets a lucky yolo rng blessing like I did with my almost-mirror hubris in the beta, how is that item any more legitimate or less problematic than the guy who made the same item but with 5 more intelligence at the cost of 700 eternal/exalts? How is the eternal/exalted item any different or less legitimate than the once in a billion 6t1 drop? In the end those good items are still going to spread everywhere over time through mirroring. Let's not forget all these mirror items in circulation today didn't magically pop up 2 days after eternals were added, most of them took a long time to craft/find/etc. and they'll start to appear again with the new tier 1 affixes and a few years from now, even if every eternal was removed from the game, they'll all be around again because people will get those lucky exalted rolls and drops. Limiting the amount of top tier affixes an item can have won't fix the problem either. Everyone will figure out what the best top tier affixes are to have and which are the best for the next tier down and so on and so forth which will just result in these new items being the mirror-worthy items instead of 6t1s since those would be impossible under the system. I also still fail to see how these 6 t1 items (that are not used in the balancing of any part of the game) are somehow "unhealthy" or "damaging" to the game. How is the guy who spent 15000 exalts on mirrors/eternals/mirror fees/whatever and can afk through any content in the game any worse than the guy with a Windripper/etc who can do the same or the person with the 6link +3 fire staff lvl 4 empower srs who can also do the same? How about the racers who are doing level 75+ maps 3 days into the league (who almost assuredly don't have mirror-quality gear)? |
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" thats not true " people would still craft for profit. Its exactly what happened with multimod, without eternals it doesnt make sense to keep rerolling over good items that you can make a profit on. People love crafting and will keep crafting, stuff like jewellery, wands, daggers etc you can start out trying to make a specific caster piece and stumble over bis attack rolls for this or that specific build, people who regularly craft will regularly end up with profit turning gear, nothing they make will ever cost them more than 3 exalts and a regal essentially and if what they make with those 4 orbs is really good its going to sell for far more than that. the more you craft the more you overcome rng so people with 1000s of exalts can afford to brick a lot of them and then overall break even or make profit from the good ones over the space of 200 crafts in a row where someone with enough orbs to just craft 10 times who wants something specific doesnt have the repetition power to be sure to get what they want but does have the spending power to buy 1 item that fits the bill from the guy who just made 200 rings, 35 of which were worth a combined total of more than he paid to make the 200. If you have 24 exalts you have 8 attempts to craft a ring, its probably not enough to get this exact set of stats you want so if a guy has the thing you want you will pay him the 24ex for it as its the only realistic way to get it. The seller can still make a profit because hes not limited to something specific, anything he hits thats good for someone is good enough to sell, he didnt have to hit cast speed and dex, but he did so its perfect for the guy. If he hit attack speed ans strength thats exactly what some other guy wanted and so forth. If you set out to craft a phys wand you need exact phys stats, but you might hit spell damage and cast speed, spell damage and spell crit, caster weapons, spell damage and crit chance, coc weapon, elemental damage and attack crit, ele attacker, if you have a ton of currency you can finish all these crafts and sell them, you might never even hit a phys wand and still come out with 10 wands that will net a bigger value than what you spent all together because the guy who wants 1 specific wand probably cant afford to hit that specific thing, sure he has enough on average to hit maybe 1 or 2 things that are worth selling but if its not the particular thing he wants then the situation becomes complex as he now has to sell those and you take a risk even trying where bird i the hand, this other dude has 40 wands for sale and one of them is exactly what you want, you take the sure route. It may not make total sense that its economically viable but that is the nature of this game, how does it make sense that people were alt regaling weapons and selling them for profit when multimod was a big thing with the hybrid stat? Surely it has to cost less than it took to craft or people would just craft it themselves? Well, in theory but it doesnt work out that way because ur dealing with rng and guy number 1 may have enough to buy 1000 alts and attempt it but what if it bricks and he doesnt get it? If guy number 2 has enough wealth to spam 200,000 alts he can overcome rng. Its the same way 6 linking for profit works, and 6 linking for profit does work, if you have 1000s and 1000s of fusing it might average out at 600 per 6 link for you but a guy is willing to pay you more than that because it might take 300 one time and 1200 the next time so hes looking at his 800 fusing and saying fuck it, give me the sure thing you have it already linked, Im not going to risk it. When youre dealing with high variance rng the ability to repeat a process 10, 20, 50, 100, 200, 500 times can put you in a position where you can charge more than its averaging you to people who can afford to do the process maybe 1.5 times with youre average cost but dont want the risk. I love all you people on the forums, we can disagree but still be friends and respect each other :)
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