Why the "You need more health" paradigm is bad

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BrainHP wrote:

[Removed by Support]

You want to make this about individuals because then it is easier for you to construct a narrative where you are unequivocally correct. Since you have a long history with this game and spent a great deal of money supporting it I understand you want to defend certain things, but who are you to arbitrate worthiness?

Wispo, who admittedly is not making a good case, has just about the same chance of survival as the average player who DOES USE THE DEFENSIVE OPTIONS over the medium-term.

So defensive options are optional, but not.

Stacking every layer of defense AND HP is optional, but not.

Even if a player DOES everything he or she can INCLUDING OUTLEVELING the content by more than 10 levels there are RNG situations which will kill that character right away.

What you're saying is that if anyone disagrees with you, they aren't HC enough to have an opinion. What an elitist attitude to take. Some players reach 100 without dying so everything is fine, move along now youngsters!

I'm advocating for an ARPG with a reasonable difficulty curve and consistent mechanics. I find it telling that the majority of posts in this forum are FOR changing the difficulty mechanics towards more consistency and predictability.

I've said I'll get on the beta in a few days and check things out at your word. [Removed by Support]

Final thought: If GGG's design and balance goals are for an ARPG Roguelike with unavoidable death mechanics, let them make a dev manifesto post about it and I'll be on my merry way.

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Wispo wrote:

Vaal grace, like flasks, it's a temporary defence. In a game where your rip can came all of a sudden out of nowhere like underground (devourers) or from offscreen (rohas, chimerals) you'll want a forever active defense, and not instead a defense that must be activated by your reflexes, when realistically it's already too late

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DeviantLightning wrote:

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Other example of shitty design: "or you overlevel, or get killed". It's at least strange that in a forum of self called hardcore gamers, are found guys that first ask loud MORE DIFFICULTY and after, for facing it, they use invincibility (IC), and guys that need to be 5-10 levels above the zone to feel safe. Apart of this, oneshots (apart from super bosses like dominus, oversoul or atziri) should NOT exist.

Also not true. It's only true in the final stages of the game where you start pushing level ~80 since there are no maps that wouldn't give you an exp penalty by that point.

Prior to that I actually make it a point to be within ~3-5 levels under the zone, since pushing content into Merciless levels you faster and gets you to endgame that more quickly. Even slowing down, I wouldn't want to be more than 1-2 levels overleveled, and that only because it's simply better exp to clear zones like Docks by Merciless.

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DeviantLightning wrote:

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Wispo wrote:

Vaal grace, like flasks, it's a temporary defence. In a game where your rip can came all of a sudden out of nowhere like underground (devourers) or from offscreen (rohas, chimerals) you'll want a forever active defense, and not instead a defense that must be activated by your reflexes, when realistically it's already too late

Vaal Grace lasts 9+ seconds with Increased Duration, to say nothing when you have two of them and flask charges. Which you will, because you are saving them for unusual situations. You're supposed read/anticipate situations for things like Rhoas or Devourers.

18 seconds of 75% dodge is stupidly godly. Layered with flask efficiency and evasion, it gets better.

Slow down in zones that have dangerous mobs exactly because force multipliers make them increasingly dangerous. Skeletal rhoas shouldn't be one-shotting you regardless unless you're pulling scads of them all at once or doing outright suicidal map mods.

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Wispo wrote:

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DeviantLightning wrote:

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Wispo wrote:

Vaal grace, like flasks, it's a temporary defence. In a game where your rip can came all of a sudden out of nowhere like underground (devourers) or from offscreen (rohas, chimerals) you'll want a forever active defense, and not instead a defense that must be activated by your reflexes, when realistically it's already too late

Vaal Grace lasts 9+ seconds with Increased Duration, to say nothing when you have two of them and flask charges. Which you will, because you are saving them for unusual situations. You're supposed read/anticipate situations for things like Rhoas or Devourers.

18 seconds of 75% dodge is stupidly godly. Layered with flask efficiency and evasion, it gets better.

Slow down in zones that have dangerous mobs exactly because force multipliers make them increasingly dangerous. Skeletal rhoas shouldn't be one-shotting you regardless unless you're pulling scads of them all at once or doing outright suicidal map mods.

I was not talking of the already activated skill, but of the time between

player sees the danger---player push button

Some mobs like hasted yellows chimerals kill you before that pression on the button :/

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Wispo wrote:

Information... many times i have seen mobs appearing in areas "not of their own", so i would not make a safety of skills depending on reflexes activation :/ For not talking of fights that can be "long" as for example merveil and the endless kiting of water streams... and in those cases it's not granted to be able to recharge a vaal skill :/

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DeviantLightning wrote:

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Wispo wrote:

Information... many times i have seen mobs appearing in areas "not of their own", so i would not make a safety of skills depending on reflexes activation :/ For not talking of fights that can be "long" as for example merveil and the endless kiting of water streams... and in those cases it's not granted to be able to recharge a vaal skill :/

Information can be had by throwing totems ahead too you know. Or pulling carefully.
I can't really think of the last time I was surprised by that one scary death pack, since 9-times-in-10, I'm going to see white skellie rhoas first. If I roll "Inhabited by Skeletons" I know it's a good possibilty that something will charge me offscreen.

Maybe it's a habit I picked up in Invasion, but there you have it.

The Necropolis Merveil fight is more annoying than dangerous IMO.
It's long sure, but that's not what Vaal defenses are for, they're more like insurance in case things go bad or for edge cases where a mob does hit hard and you want to bulwark against it.

Did it to the Mine boss and face-tanked him instead of kiting him around on a ranger. Absolutely zero chance of dying because evasion prevents back-to-backs. But the Vaal Grace just lets me stand on him instead of having to move-shoot-move-shoot.