Legacy items are bullshit

To elaborate on my previous post: hypocrisy requires a contradiction.

GGG isn't necessarily hypoctical if they say "those guys already have it, let them keep it." It is only hypocritical if they then add "but all the players who don't have it yet can't get it as a drop."

Thus, three ways to fix the legacy problem: nerf the old to the level of the new, buff the new to the level of the old, or some compromise of the two.

For example, legacy Kaom's Heart isn't really a problem anymore. Since it was legacied, base life has almost doubled, and life nodes have almost halved. Still a great chest, but no longer patently ridiculous. I feel buffing the new is definitely the right answer in that case. No changes for the old timers there.

So no, people, I'm not a "path of nerfs" zealot. I'm just arguing for some measure of equality.

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NeroNoah wrote:

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Aim_Deep wrote:

It has nothing to do with defending status quo. It's if you worked your ass off to save 300ex and buy a legacy shavs you want what u paid for not a bait and switch operation. Earning - something many of you would never understand as you seek to destroy in envy.

But hey! This time is not being nerfed. Calm down, :)
The rest is buffed making it less overpowered, I guess.

I guess this is more a proof that people care about their 300 ex rather than the item per se.

Here is something to cheer you up: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depreciation

Well I dont believe OP and 150EX items can be used in same sentence. You're supposed to be a fucking god with top tier rare ass warez. Legacy or not. Thats why I never see them as issue. Pre nerf or post existing as a legacy

OP is cheap builds with common gear that trivialize content. Some reason they dont get the same whine... wonder why,

i didnt see any of you guys in my 2ex lvl 75 beating Atziri thread or dozens of ones like it complaining about OP. Naw you pick on expensive stuff thats supposed to be OP because of envy.

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

@Nurvus: way too tinfoil for me, sorry.

Never attribute to malice what can be adequately explained by stupidity. - Robert J. Hanlon

I guess you don't realize I was merely criticizing RogueMage's thought-process.

There's no malice in GGG's actions from my point of view.
Legacy was a solution they came up with in an attempt to "not upset the veterans" and "make a balanced game for the newcomers".

Except everyone is playing the same game, and no one should ever become upset for having the game balanced for them - specially in a game where skill refunds are granted.

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Aim_Deep wrote:

OP is cheap builds with common gear that trivialize content. Some reason they dont get the same whine... wonder why.

They do from me. Even with spell shotgunning gone, LMP and GMP should have been further nerfed, not buffed, in the beta.

But hey, let's stay on topic.

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

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Aim_Deep wrote:

OP is cheap builds with common gear that trivialize content. Some reason they dont get the same whine... wonder why.

They do from me. Even with spell shotgunning gone, LMP and GMP should have been further nerfed, not buffed, in the beta.

But hey, let's stay on topic.

Shtgunning was a cool and clever mechanic sad to see it go into blandness static DPS mode.

Close and dangerous = more DPS
Far and safe = less DPS.

If you or GGG think the spells did too much DPS fine. Nerf the spells down. But mechanic was cool and creative with good risk/reward.

Fortify alone corrects the issues melee has with it. Now they are just OP with GGGs scorched earth approach to balance.

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davidnn5 wrote:

Pneuma and Nero: You're both talking as if the standard player's mentality is based purely on a desire for absolute permanence. "Passive tree changes occur, therefore legacies are pointless anyway!!"

It's an uninflected, perjorative perspective. Rather, think of standard players as being people who want *some measure* of permanence.

What it's actually about is survival against all odds. Long-term survival in a hostile environment so brittle your most basic premises can literally dissolve at a moment's notice. Stripped naked of everything that made you what you were, and challenged to put yourself back together in some semblance of your former glory. Perhaps even turning out better in some ways, but battle-scarred and cynical. Dodging the nerf hammer undaunted is about as close to hardcore as PoE will ever get, since what's labelled as "hardcore" is in practice more like Russian roulette.

The typical Standard player is nothing like the facerolling rmt-fueled stereotype, bristling with the most OP Legacies and Mirrored trophies money can buy. Most are instead seeking the best ways to leverage a modest collection of orbs and a limited amount of available playing time. To a Standard player, the prospect of starting all over in a "fresh" league, with nothing to show for your cummulative investment in the game, is like getting busted and sent back to square one, condemned to repeat the hackneyed old grind you struggled to put behind you.

Not just Legacies, but standardized Uniques in general are one of the few durable ways to insure your character's long-term integrity, an enduring sense of identity in a fractured environment wrought with arbitrary, chaotic disruption. Trivializing the content is far from most players' minds when the overriding concern is to hold your own against the relentless pressure of unconstrained power creep. Does 10K dps and 3.5K life still cut it, or am I about to get steamrolled again? Will I have to Q20 my best gems and finally 6L my chest to survive? At least I still have the Facebreakers I found back in Open Beta. And yes, you will have to pry them off my cold, dead hands.

In those days I was one of harshest Legacy critics you could find on the forums. That was well before Crit Uber Alles trivilized the last shreds of "balance" and Atziri "service" emerged as the ultimate endgame. But in all that time I have yet to see anyone come up with a more equitable settlement of the Legacy problem than mine:

Whenever an item ascends to Legacy status, render it Bound on Account.

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[Removed by Support]

What does claiming others to be jealous, inferior, bashing, or raging give you?
Nobody insulted you and yet you throw the first stone.

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I agree -- this is entirely a Standard concern. My limits of caring about legacies are explaining why GGG can't fix it even if they wanted to.

In a different universe where GGG did focus on creating a game with a permanent world I'd have a lot of words, but that's not the game we're playing.

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The typical Standard player is nothing like the facerolling rmt-fueled stereotype, bristling with the most OP Legacies and Mirrored trophies money can buy. Most are instead seeking the best ways to leverage a modest collection of orbs and a limited amount of available playing time. To a Standard player, the prospect of starting all over in a "fresh" league, with nothing to show for your cummulative investment in the game, is like getting busted and sent back to square one, condemned to repeat the hackneyed old grind you struggled to put behind you.

Exactly I did fist two ladders Ambush and Rampage. Now I just want to stop and spell the roses of stuff I acquired. Was nice sitting out Torment and building lots of stuff with accumulated assets I would never have opportunity to do in ladder. I only can play like 1-2 hours a day. I love to trade but obviously only being online 1-2 hrs cuts into my abilities to trade. If I had it my way leagues would be 6 months again. Takes me about that much time to make lvl 3 empowers and 6L all out. Anyway taking my efforts away (like say you nerfed my 40% lightning coil) would piss me off as it represents a lot of effort. Sold dozens/hundreds of items alcs at a time sometimes to get that to add up to a 6L lightning coil.

Dont nerf me bro.

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pneuma wrote:

a game with a permanent world I'd have a lot of words, but that's not the game we're playing.

I'm not sure what you're trying to convey with this odd phrase. The world is clearly permanent because it (and characters) persist over patches and modifications. Clearly things inside the world change, but... that's true of most online games.

Perhaps you mean to say PoE doesn't have forced permanency, as you have the option to delete characters once you're bored of them?

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pneuma wrote:

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[Removed by Support]

What does claiming others to be jealous, inferior, bashing, or raging give you?
Nobody insulted you and yet you throw the first stone.

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I agree -- this is entirely a Standard concern. My limits of caring about legacies are explaining why GGG can't fix it even if they wanted to.

In a different universe where GGG did focus on creating a game with a permanent world I'd have a lot of words, but that's not the game we're playing.

Insults and making claims? You do know what 'WHY' means and what the ? mark is for?