Legacy items are bullshit

I dont like BoA. Item becomes worthless by definition. I like to trade whole reason I left d3 and came here was their stupid BoA. Someday I want legacy shav when i have a few hundred exalts laying around i have nothing else better to do with. I want to sell my legacies at premium to build other things im interested in. Cant do that if you make them worthless (BOA). Thats even worse than nerf.

Nerf at least item still has value BoA you destroy my value and convertibility I worked for.

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

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Aim_Deep wrote:

In that case, I would say that the net hurt felt by newer players being cut off from legacy items is 100% psychological. If they didn't know such items existed, they would 100% not feel hurt by not having them.

Consider every technology of the past 115 years, from the perspective of the man of the year 1900. Automobiles, planes, vaccines, computers, Internet, mobile phones. Mere dreams to him.

If you were to alter the timeline so these innovations never occurred, would you say you are doing only "psychological" harm?

Ignorance of a benefit does not mean one is not deprived of a benefit.

Just to set the record straight, that quote was from me, not Aim_Deep. i think your example here is invalid. You are talking about apples and oranges. Your comparison should be flying First Class vs. Economy, or driving a luxury car vs an economy car. Or having an Iphone vs. flip phone. Would not knowing about a better version of something you have affect how you think of the functional version you have? if you were flying on a plane with no first class seats, would you be satisfied with your seat? If suddenly they switched planes and there were first class seats, would you suddenly feel like your coach seat was "crappy" in comparison? The plane still gets you to the destination, but in one case somebody has more legroom than you and in the other case you all have the same legroom. In which case would you feel slighted? And why? is it a psychological reason, or is there an actual physical reason that you feel harmed?

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Dark_Chicken wrote:

Speculation is part of a healthy and free market, and a healthy, free market with min intervention and regulations is a big part of a working and healthy economy.

The Standard league economy is far from a "healthy and free market". It is dominated by an illicit cartel of bot-fueled RMT sites that have grossly inflated Legacy prices to the point where legit players are largely shut out of the market. GGG doesn't have to "regulate" anything, all they need do is eliminate the opportunity to speculate on flipping Legacy items, and IMO, Mirrored items as well. Do that, and the balloon economy's ill-gotten profits will sag, botters and vultures will move on to fresher exploits, and prices will naturally drop back to realistic levels over time.

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RogueMage wrote:

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Dark_Chicken wrote:

Speculation is part of a healthy and free market, and a healthy, free market with min intervention and regulations is a big part of a working and healthy economy.

The Standard league economy is far from a "healthy and free market". It is dominated by an illicit cartel of bot-fueled RMT sites that have grossly inflated Legacy prices to the point where legit players are largely shut out of the market. GGG doesn't have to "regulate" anything, all they need do is eliminate the opportunity to speculate on flipping Legacy items, and IMO, Mirrored items as well. Do that, and the balloon economy's ill-gotten profits will sag, botters and vultures will move on to fresher exploits, and prices will naturally drop back to realistic levels over time.

A lot of accusations hurled at GGGs standard economy with no proof. Big ballers I know play 24/7, every time i log they are on. They have many characters in the high 90s or even 100. They are always 6Lking and run active shops open for business. Bottom line they earned it.

You BoA idea strips all value and convertibility from their hard fraught effort.

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Aim_Deep wrote:

You BoA idea strips all value and convertibility from their hard fraught effort.

You're overgeneralizing for the sake of drama. We're talking about the unintended consequences of a special case here, Legacy items, not the entire economy. Diablo III has it backward, Bound on Account should be the exception, not the all-encompassing rule. You already accept that your leveled characters are BoA, and cannot be traded to other players. Their value lies in what you make of them yourself, not in how much you can profit from flipping them. Retiring Legacies to a similar status of personal, rather than speculative value, is no less an appropriate role for an item that has been phased out of the current edition of the game.

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RogueMage wrote:

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Dark_Chicken wrote:

Speculation is part of a healthy and free market, and a healthy, free market with min intervention and regulations is a big part of a working and healthy economy.

The Standard league economy is far from a "healthy and free market". It is dominated by an illicit cartel of bot-fueled RMT sites that have grossly inflated Legacy prices to the point where legit players are largely shut out of the market. GGG doesn't have to "regulate" anything, all they need do is eliminate the opportunity to speculate on flipping Legacy items, and IMO, Mirrored items as well. Do that, and the balloon economy's ill-gotten profits will sag, botters and vultures will move on to fresher exploits, and prices will naturally drop back to realistic levels over time.

speculation is a major, major part of trading and the economy, it isnt all about flipping and profit, it has far greater impact, you are essentially saying, cut off a large part of trading just like that which is not ideal at all.

Rmt has nothing to do with inflating anything, rather hacks and bugs do as that dupes currency and items, Rmt doesnt create extra currency out of thin air nor do they influence demand and prices for items. both rmt and dupes are GGG issues, not the market.

your suggestion probably wouldnt do much to rmt anyway, and rmt isnt just a perm problem. I suspect temp league has their fair share, even w/o leg items, currency supply is less than perm so theyd be inclined to sell for higher and make more money from temp.

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Dark_Chicken wrote:

speculation is a major, major part of trading and the economy, it isnt all about flipping and profit, it has far greater impact, you are essentially saying, cut off a large part of trading just like that which is not ideal at all.

Again with the hyperventilating overgeneralizations, as if taking Legacy items out of speculation would ruin the entire trading economy. I say it would only cockblock the RMT-fueled vultures and allow prices to settle to more realistic levels, leaving a much healthier environment of legit traders and players.

I've said it before and will say it again - all the arguments and analogies are just fine and dandy, but eventually pointless. Here's one thing no one can dispute: any changes will have an adverse effect on some portion of the playerbase - their funders.

As such, they should look to make any change to legacies only when they can insulate the playerbase from such changes. I.e. when they release a new game. Even a new 'non-legacy but permanent' league is not really going to cut it - that's just an extended temp league and people would still complain about the neighbours having better grass on their side of the fence.

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RogueMage wrote:

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Dark_Chicken wrote:

speculation is a major, major part of trading and the economy, it isnt all about flipping and profit, it has far greater impact, you are essentially saying, cut off a large part of trading just like that which is not ideal at all.

Again with the hyperventilating overgeneralizations, as if taking Legacy items out of speculation would ruin the entire trading economy. I say it would only cockblock the RMT-fueled vultures and allow prices to settle to more realistic levels, leaving a much healthier environment of legit traders and players.

rather than making useless and inaccurate descriptions of my posts, you should analyze your own argument. your suggestion fails in understanding of how pricing and market behavior works and the rmt business. how would taking legacy out of spec discourage rmt at all? there is always something next as the bis or most coveted or most rare to speculate and you'll suggest to cut off the next new thing, cycle over and over, then why not just take trading out of the game completely to cock block rmt for good and certain? as long as there is trading, bis and rare items, and no strong rmt enforcement and detection yl you run into the same problems.

@Scrotie
I completely agree with what you said, legacys shouldn't exist.
But there is one factor that I think you missed.

GGG can't change legacy items. The way the system works atm, it would take several days to migrate the old legacy items into their new versions.
I believe the database holds the value itself (for example 20 - 30 cold res), so they would have to convert each item one by one to the new limits (15 - 20). It would be easier if the system was holding a percentage of how high each roll is, but that might have other negative consequences.