Oh Look, Valve are dickheads, part Infinity

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FireWalkWithMe wrote:

Hopefully this will bring about the destruction of the industry, which has been coming for a few years now, so it can go through the symptoms of its eventual re-birth. Like the mid 80s. Needs to happen at this point.

That finally proves that you are not a part of this industry. And that you have a spleen for total (destructive) statements. And that you have no clue of what you are talking about. The death and destruction of an industry means thousands of people losing their lives. Literally. To post shit like this in a forum of a company that is also reaching for customers by steam is just ... crazy. Total destruction. And that just for some poor guys like you who "want my moddies baaaack"? Get a life, man.

R.I.P: :(

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ghamadvar wrote:

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FireWalkWithMe wrote:

Hopefully this will bring about the destruction of the industry, which has been coming for a few years now, so it can go through the symptoms of its eventual re-birth. Like the mid 80s. Needs to happen at this point.

That finally proves that you are not a part of this industry. And that you have a spleen for total (destructive) statements. And that you have no clue of what you are talking about. The death and destruction of an industry means thousands of people losing their lives. Literally. To post shit like this in a forum of a company that is also reaching for customers by steam is just ... crazy. Total destruction. And that just for some poor guys like you who "want my moddies baaaack"? Get a life, man.

Literally losing their lives? So if their job goes away they...die?

Could be a great novel I am for it.

Finally proves I am not part of the industry... Were you debating this behind the scenes? PMs or like in a boardroom with a shuffleboard moving tanks and stuff? I feel so important.

As to GGG, I like GGG. I wish they would separate themselves from Valve but if they make a lot of money by association then I wish them the best.

much luv brother much luv.

dont sweat Valve will be with an improved version they wont let this go. They will start with a fresh game not one that has 4 years of establish modding.

Valve and Bethesda throw in the towel:

http://www.nexusmods.com/games/news/12464/?

We'll see how long that lasts. =^[.]^=

Good news, thanks for the link Ray.

They weren't brainwashed enough. If complete brainwash works users will believe every PR shit they see.

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ghamadvar wrote:

Okay. You force me to write something i never wanted to write ;)
You are taking a book that was sold more than 100 million times to make an example for how things can go wrong?

And PLEASE, don't get me wrong: FsoG is the worst shit anyone has ever written. But it was sold more than 100 MILLION times. That's not too bad i would say.
And to be honest: Everything is kind of fan fiction. Every fantasy novel is fan fiction of fantasy that has already been written. Every science-fiction is based on other science fiction in some kind of way. It is not like Star Wars did something new storywise ;)

Why don't we wait and look what it brings? Maybe Valve destroys the world by implementing payed mod-content. Maybe they save it. Or maybe something totally different happens. Money means competition. Money means more serious business. Something, btw. that some mods and modders do lack. I wonder how many mods would have been done to the end when the modders would have known that they will earn money by doing so? There were so many mods out there that sounded great and never got finished.

Let's start by saying that we are all intelligent enough to identify the distinction between fan fiction versus original creation that borrows and has infunces from other works. Besides the 50 shades reference was meant as a joke anyway.

Other than that, yeah more money means more serious BUISENESS, not more serious ART. Usually(not always but definetely most times), the commercialisation of art goes hand in hand with huge decrease in quality. Furious 7 is more serious work of art than the works of Eisenstein, Tarkovsky, Henneke or Aggelopoulos? The guitarist of Tokyo hotel is a more serious guitar player than Paco De Lucia, Allan holdsworth or John Mclaughlin? Rihanna is a more serious artist than Robert Johnson or Georgy Ligetti? The examples can go on for an eternity. Of course is Video Game design an art form? I think it might be. Of course serious art can also sell alot, starting from the Beatles and Jimi Hendrix all the way to someone like Trent Reznor, but you get my point. You asnwered your quetion on your own anyway. 50 Shades did indeed sold millions, but it is still "the worst shit anyone has written".


Also great news Ray, thanks for sharing. I can't really not take the Bethesda post with a grain of salt though, trying to tell us that Mods are not really a big deal for the company, while the Lead Developer himself had said: Regarding sales on the PC, Todd Howard stated in an interview with Rock, Paper, Shotgun that “Skyrim did better than we’ve ever done on PC by a large, large number. And that’s where the mods are. That feeds the game for a long time."

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Poutsos wrote:

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ghamadvar wrote:

Okay. You force me to write something i never wanted to write ;)
You are taking a book that was sold more than 100 million times to make an example for how things can go wrong?

And PLEASE, don't get me wrong: FsoG is the worst shit anyone has ever written. But it was sold more than 100 MILLION times. That's not too bad i would say.
And to be honest: Everything is kind of fan fiction. Every fantasy novel is fan fiction of fantasy that has already been written. Every science-fiction is based on other science fiction in some kind of way. It is not like Star Wars did something new storywise ;)

Why don't we wait and look what it brings? Maybe Valve destroys the world by implementing payed mod-content. Maybe they save it. Or maybe something totally different happens. Money means competition. Money means more serious business. Something, btw. that some mods and modders do lack. I wonder how many mods would have been done to the end when the modders would have known that they will earn money by doing so? There were so many mods out there that sounded great and never got finished.

Let's start by saying that we are all intelligent enough to identify the distinction between fan fiction versus original creation that borrows and has infunces from other works. Besides the 50 shades reference was meant as a joke anyway.

Other than that, yeah more money means more serious BUISENESS, not more serious ART. Usually(not always but definetely most times), the commercialisation of art goes hand in hand with huge decrease in quality. Furious 7 is more serious work of art than the works of Eisenstein, Tarkovsky, Henneke or Aggelopoulos? The guitarist of Tokyo hotel is a more serious guitar player than Paco De Lucia, Allan holdsworth or John Mclaughlin? Rihanna is a more serious artist than Robert Johnson or Georgy Ligetti? The examples can go on for an eternity. Of course is Video Game design an art form? I think it might be. Of course serious art can also sell alot, starting from the Beatles and Jimi Hendrix all the way to someone like Trent Reznor, but you get my point. You asnwered your quetion on your own anyway. 50 Shades did indeed sold millions, but it is still "the worst shit anyone has written".

But it also does not mean less serious art (which is nothing more than a term brought up by bohemians that don't sell their shit). So: Making money or having money is not a factor in making "good" art. It can't be. Some of the highest paid artists of their times did amazing, timeless work that lasts till now. And what is serious art? Is Furious 7 really comparable to the works of Haneke(if you meant him with Henneke)? Why compare uncomparable stuff. Hanekes "Amour" compared to Furious 7? Really? Furious 7 is an action movie. I have not seen it (i am not a fan of cars). But let's take avengers 2 as an example. Much money. Action movie. Awesome. Could not have been done without money. As nearly every other action movie out there. Eisensteins work compared with Furious 7? Really? Alexander Antonow compared to Vin Diesel raging in cars? Did you just want to throw in some super-serious names? Should we compare "Oldschool" with "Citizen Kane" then? Or Hitchcock with Sandler? Or the early Brando with Seth Rogen?

I answered no ones question right. I believe that 50 shades is bullshit. Some of my friends love it. But: I never said that it's not art. That's a huge difference. I think that Rihannas music is shit. But i would never call her a non-serious artist. I hate people who boo artists on stage. My sister is a great actress. Friends of mine are artists. They live and die by the applause. I know how hard they work, even if they just do commercials or advertising for companies. Who am i or who are you to judge if something is art? Throw in as many names as you wish. Especially those that sound sophisticated. If you think that they let you look more educated and more trained in the high arts of highest arts: so be it. I had more than one discussion with people who wanted to tell me what is art and what not. That's the wrong way to deal with taste imo. Call something bullshit. No problem with it. But please stop throwing in names just to sound "better". There are too many examples of great art and business-models out there to prove you wrong. Money or the amount of money one can make with his or her art does not determine the quality of his or her art. Art is all about the spectator or the recipient. If you don't like it: fine. But it may still be art. You wrote:

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"Usually(not always but definetely most times), the commercialisation of art goes hand in hand with huge decrease in quality."

And i say: no, it is not. More often, the commercialisation of art is the fuel that drives the artist. DaVinci, Michelangelo for example needed patrons and money to do what they did. There was always money paying the greatest artworks mankind knows. Or do you think Michelangelo did the Pieta just by stealing a rock from some poor fella and that's it? I agree that money can be dangerous for arts. But it can be fuel also. And in most cases, it is the second.
Even Eisenstein made some movies to earn money, btw. ;)
So: I get you. I too have problems to call something like Rihanna art. But my sister teached me some lessons. I don't have to compare Keith Jarrett to Rihanna. I love Jazz, i hate that Techno-R&B shit. But: i don't say what is art and what is not. "Endless" by Keith Jarrett is my song. For me, it is the best song ever written. For others, it is "Bitch better have my money" (had to google this ;))
And yeah: Video Games are art. There is better stuff out there, like GTA or Metal Gear or Dark Souls. And there is some brutally bad shit out there like https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NYt3B9lcUm0
I don't have to like it. But i leave the art-question unanswered. Especially when it is about the benjamins. I believe that money does not determine the sobriety of art. It is the artists character that does. And i don't know that people too good to judge over that ;)
Fine with it. Are you?

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ghamadvar wrote:

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FireWalkWithMe wrote:

Hopefully this will bring about the destruction of the industry, which has been coming for a few years now, so it can go through the symptoms of its eventual re-birth. Like the mid 80s. Needs to happen at this point.

That finally proves that you are not a part of this industry. And that you have a spleen for total (destructive) statements. And that you have no clue of what you are talking about. The death and destruction of an industry means thousands of people losing their lives. Literally. To post shit like this in a forum of a company that is also reaching for customers by steam is just ... crazy. Total destruction. And that just for some poor guys like you who "want my moddies baaaack"? Get a life, man.

lel at you both. Having the modding scene go through a rough patch of sorts to come back stronger than ever is within the realm of possibility. Decimating the gaming industry as a whole in such a way would be like wiping out porn. It's a pipe dream and not to be taken seriously. It's quite amusing you two seem to.