Not going to lie I am dreading this patch.

"

KorgothBG wrote:

"Oh NO! They are nerfing overpowered mechanics that i happen to use! The end is nigh!"

But I wasn't overpowered I just like flamethrowing :(

"

KorgothBG wrote:

"Oh NO! They are nerfing overpowered mechanics that i happen to use! The end is nigh!"

I think the problem is that rather than nerfing, they're suggesting a complete overhaul to the nature and mechanics of EB. It's a little different than a 'nerf', but rather an elimination of a keystone altogether in order to create a different one.

It should be noted that it's not as if these changes are set in stone, but... a 'nerf' would be having EB convert only 50% of ES into mana while removing energy shield completely (something like that, maybe a higher or lower percentage depending on overall stats, etc.).

It's more like if a keystone was suddenly removed, and replaced by an entirely different one - it affects a lot of builds, especially for newer/less 'elite' or 'rich' players that can simply afford to toss out a few exalts and start a new character...

I know you are probably trying to just be humorous with your sarcastic hyperbole here, but it should be noted that these are genuine concerns.

Thanks for reading!

:)

EDIT: I'm assuming that this conversation refers to the changes to EB. If not, my apologies.

"

KorgothBG wrote:

@LyonelNoale
It referred to the changes to ondar's guile and multiple projectiles as well as the EB changes.

You are right that EB is rather reworked and not nerfed in the traditional sense .... but let's face it ... EB was too good to be left alone so the future for it was either oldschool nerfing or the reworking approach .. and i must say ... i definitely prefer GGG to rework things instead of mindlessly nerfing them ( when this is necessary and possible of course ).

When large percentage of the players use a certain skill/mechanic/item then something is clearly not ok .. and some balancing is needed .

I agree that a nerf is in order, but I think that what would be much better would be for 'Mana Shield' to be it's own keystone. That way, there's a larger diversity of builds... if EB is altered, I feel like that doesn't quite solve the problem of too many players using a certain skill/mechanic/item; rather, it just shifts attention towards the next 'overplayed' item/skill/mechanic, etc.

By introducing a new skill ('Mana Shield') and nerfing EB, players can still have access to old mechanics (although not quite as easily or as overpowered) AND are given more options, which leads to greater build diversity. Personally, I would absolutely LOVE to see a Mana Shield keystone! And if EB remains (but is significantly nerfed enough that it's not too overpowered/a requirement for a large majority of casters), that raises the diversity even more.

TLDR: Yes, nerf! But why not nerf EB and add a new keystone with the proposed EB mechanic? That'll mean more build diversity, and a bit of better balancing at the same time.

EDIT:Regarding the 'shift' in attention - I mean, by players. If they stop using EB, then what's to stop them from working towards the 'next best thing?' (whatever that may be, CI, or more likely Low Life...). I find that adding more options is a better way to increase build diversity and then nerfing to make the popular builds still viable, but not as alluring as other possible creations

"

KorgothBG wrote:

@LyonelNoale
It referred to the changes to ondar's guile and multiple projectiles as well as the EB changes.

You are right that EB is rather reworked and not nerfed in the traditional sense .... but let's face it ... EB was too good to be left alone so the future for it was either oldschool nerfing or the reworking approach .. and i must say ... i definitely prefer GGG to rework things instead of mindlessly nerfing them ( when this is necessary and possible of course ).

When large percentage of the players use a certain skill/mechanic/item then something is clearly not ok .. and some balancing is needed .

This thinking really needs to stop. It's not logical, nor does it help. Most players use something because:
a. they think it will lead them to one-shot every mob in the game (know many players doing that with literally every build?)
b. they think it's required, and perhaps it reasonably is.

As much as one side of the debate are predicting the sky falling in, the other side (you, sir) are claiming things need to change because most people use them, without any empirical data to back your assertion. Correlation is not causation, n=1, whatever you like - proof is in the real data (survivability of the vast majority of casters), not in suppositions about why EB is OP because GGG said.

"

KorgothBG wrote:

Well that sounds good.
BUT
The combination of this new mana shield + EB ( even nerfed ) would be just insanely overpowered ... and if you nerf them both so that the combination ends-up well balanced... well in that case each of those 2 keystones will be greatly underpowered without each other thus creating a forced combo . If you want to use EB you need to use the mana shield keystone and vice-versa.

That's true, the combination could be very much OP.

Although I wouldn't mind your suggestion of it possibly being a forced combo, in which you have to take both passives together for them to be effective! It would be similar to how CI can't really work alone without other keystone passives (Ghost Reaver and/or Zealot's Oath for example). I think that'd be pretty interesting, and could open up some experimentation with what happens when you take the Keystones on their own (and some possible crazy experimental builds).

It's too bad they couldn't place a limit which could prevent both from being taken, somehow: a condition like 'This Keystone cannot be taken with Mana Shield' or 'This Keystone cannot be taken with Eldritch Battery'...

Overall though I don't know how anything would work until I get to try it out :/

It just depends on the small technical details in the end, like how MoM would work, and the suggested shifts to mana drain from different spells. I overall don't mind the changes, but I'm still worried about the impact it could have in regards to making characters unplayable rather than just 'weaker.'

I have sold everything I got on standard. Not gonna play anymore there, but at least I got liquid just in case

ruined EB + no more shotgunning + removal of buff effect nodes = RIP Incinerators.