Elemental Proliferation is fine.
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@uvne, that's exactly what I'm saying. Shock has been completely reworked, freeze and ignite have both been nerfed all because of how they function with prolif. We're even at the point where if you nerf prolif all of these mechanics might need a buff to make up for it in fact.
Finished 17th in Rampage - Peaked at 11th
Finished 18th in Torment/Bloodline 1mo Race - peaked at 9th Null's Inclination Build 2.1.0 - https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1559063 Summon Skeleton 1.3 - https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1219856 | |
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i am getting a little sick of all the burn builds, the big issue with prolif is that ability to transfer the most damaging burn to enemies, you burn a low fire res mob next to a boss, the boss gets melted from the proliferation.
maybe they should address that portion. i mean come on fellas it is not like one shotting a whole room is some how special. |
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" You being sick of seeing them is not a reason to nerf them. As for the burn damage issue, they could tone that down simply by making burn damage resisted based on fire resist. I'm actually surprised it isn't already like this. " Lots of builds do this without Prolif. This won't be fixed by nerfing it, and even if you were to nerf every build capable of doing it, you only detract from the fun of the game--not add to it. Nobody wants to play a game where the enemy health relative to your character's strength is effectively raised all the time while you as a player get dragged down. It's called moving the goal posts, and it's bad design philosophy. Since most people play in the temp leagues and the time available to acquire gear is limited, this becomes even more true. Good builds should be able to have fun at high level--not just the best 1% of builds. Otherwise people come to believe that only those 1% builds are "viable" (because that's how it becomes), and build diversity dies with it. There's another problem at work here too. People always assume that something "must" be OP, because "no game can be truly balanced." The problem is that these people always look for problems where none actually exist, will analyze a certain element of the game, and then portray it as "problematic" in the hope that it gets nerfed. "Nerf everything" is the eventual result of this attitude, and it results in homogenization of the game--making it very boring. This happened to WoW, has been going on in League for a long time, and is largely responsible for the boring state of SC2. When I first started PoE it was amazing because "everything is viable" was the attitude. They were less concerned with some subjective notion of "balance" and more concerned with fun. I understand a point where something can actually be overwhelmingly powerful enough to trivialize content, but it's hard to see Prolif as such a thing. Just saying "it does X" as one of its mechanics isn't reason to call it OP/problematic. |
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" Sometimes I think the goal is to make the most stale and uninspired game of all time with how badly players want things toned down. It is working very well. I saw two new players join PoE, both of them has not logged in for some time, told me it was kinda slow to them. It really does feel like viable builds should just be left to people with crazy exalt gear vs. someone who wants to make a custom viable build. | |
"Eh. While I'm still totally for nerfing Prolif, I do think it is important not to turn it into a worthless gem no one uses, taking fun out of the game. It feels like this concept, the moderate nerf, is increasingly alien to forumers here. Someone earlier in this thread suggested capping Prolif AoE at 10 units, which is just... sadistic. I mean, going above 30 units is probably too much, but if you are suggesting anything below 20 you should lay off the haterade for a bit. On the other end of the spectrum, we've got people defending Prolif saying that a small damage nerf "wouldn't do anything" so why bother. What, do we have to completely destroy a playstyle to actually impress you? Reducing the numbers on Prolif will do something, but I actually want players to be clearing out big rooms with Prolif in a post-nerf environment, because I don't want the builds to be utterly killed. The support is in need of an adjustment, yes, but not a murder. Maybe we're conditioned by the past. Some previous nerfs have been rather devastating, so we assume nerf = build death. To those with such fears, I worry Scott the same thing. But it is, you know, possible to nerf without nerfing into the ground. When Stephen Colbert was killed by HYDRA's Project Insight in 2014, the comedy world lost a hero. Since his life model decoy isn't up to the task, please do not mistake my performance as political discussion. I'm just doing what Steve would have wanted. Last edited by ScrotieMcB on Mar 2, 2015, 4:17:14 AM
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Nerf = RIP
This is known IGN: Victory_Or_Sovngarde
It's not a 13 week development cycle, it's a 13 week supporter-pack cycle. You can play any build you want, as long as it's the current meta. |
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Buff viper strike please.
also what is next after prolif. It's always something. There are always people crying for something to be adjusted. There is always a crusade. it's like a mini-game with people. Pick a skill, cry until it's adjusted (and normally becomes unused) , and then choose another. Rinse and repeat until the cycle comes full circle and they are asking for adjustments to stuff that has already been adjusted, because the adjustment made to everything else requires it. The yellow brick road gets longer and the emerald city gets further away. | |
" HA you fell for my inconsistent post. only the first part was actually criticism about proliferation , my only real issue with it really is that people use it too much. other than that I dont give a toss, in terms of things that need a nerf , there is much much much larger game to bring down first. the second part was me saying that technically prolif does nothing special. Last edited by Saltychipmunk on Mar 2, 2015, 10:04:58 AM
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" It's called balance. It's a moving target and the crowd who gets their demands met go away while a new crowd comes forward. I'm mostly shitting on prolif because I think it's the main reason MA was so broken and I lost a very fun build to this gem which has been molding the game around itself rather than just being nerfed. How many gems affected by prolif will be nerfed before we say fuck it and nerf prolif instead? Really stop and think about it, shock was changed almost solely because of how it interact with prolif, a game mechanic was nerfed before changing a gem. ---- How about this as a simple first step to nerfing prolif. The burn damage gets set on the first target but every target it jumps to it's changed by it's local damage reductions. So, if a burn starts on a fire res pack and goes to a non-fire res one, the damage goes up to anything prolifed after that. Prolifs are tagged in order, earlier prolifs always take priority and can't be overridden by other ones. Long freezes on bosses are gone, crazy burns can be brought into check and no more infinite duration shocks. Burn might be balanced out on it's own. Freeze and ice damage in general can be buffed up without fear. Shock can be changed back to 3 stacks, therefore interesting again. Finished 17th in Rampage - Peaked at 11th Finished 18th in Torment/Bloodline 1mo Race - peaked at 9th Null's Inclination Build 2.1.0 - https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1559063 Summon Skeleton 1.3 - https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1219856 Last edited by Moosifer on Mar 2, 2015, 12:43:12 PM
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I would like to see some video evidence, numeric calculations from actual builds, and equipped gear shown in these scenarios... just some evidence. Maybe it does need a look, but so far everything here is anecdotal conjecture. If the argument is to be made, let's make it with facts.
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