Rain and Load Times

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Hyskoa wrote:

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It's absolutely true that rain does cause additional graphical overhead when rendering frames. We're looking at ways to reduce this!

How about an option to turn rain and particle effects off?
That'd fix it.

+1 (more, much much more, really)

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Chris wrote:

For a while now, players have been saying that if an area has rain, it takes longer to load. This isn't true, because there's nothing additional to load. However, players kept insisting that areas with rain loaded slower than areas without. The frequently cited example was The Crossroads, which received rain at some point in the last year.

As part of the quality of life improvement process, we investigated the effects of rain on load times.

Our test involved enabling or disabling rain in The Crossroads on a copy of 1.3.0l (the current live version of the game) and measuring how long it took to load the area. This was repeated several times and was averaged. All tests were performed with a cold filesystem cache. We then repeated it with a warm cache just in case, but it didn't affect the results.

Rain made no noticeable difference to the load time of the area. The values were all within 1% of each other, with no clear winner.

This prompted the question: Why do people think that the areas are slower to load when rain is present? We believe it's because that at the time that The Crossroads had rain added, we also added a lot of new terrain assets to the area (the abandoned buildings, etc). The load time went up at the same time rain was added, but not because of the rain.

It's absolutely true that rain does cause additional graphical overhead when rendering frames. We're looking at ways to reduce this! I just wanted to address the load time issue in particular in this post.

On a side note, we have already made some improvements to how sound is handled that will yield both a smaller client footprint and also slightly faster load times. The sound changes are scheduled for the next expansion. Other QOL/performance features may be released earlier, depending on how compatible they are with 1.3.x.

How many systems did you perform your tests with? Rain, or any other particle effects which I believe need to be displayed immediately upon load do very often cause delay and way way too often a complete disconnect. 1.3 years playing.

Also, does anyone in your QA department run over a non-optimal network connection? I seriously have my doubts. Many of your QA improvements would benefit from more attention to that particular detail since it most likely the norm for over 80% of your players if not more.

I'm guessing here but it looks to me like somehow the engine for ensuring sync/no cheating is messing with the performance of particle effects. I can solo ok most of the time and deal with desync but everytime I have to deal with other peoples particle effects I get bad to very bad desync and many times disconnected. It happened once today even with my new SSD.

I'm a developer with good debugging skills and only general experience in this area however I wonder without knowing the code if it couldn't be optimised somehow by allowing the network to have more control over the graphics... i.e. don't burst a shiton of stuff that can never be displayed properly if the network is not up to speed.

this is bullshit and GGG knows it.

i posted a picture on here i found on reddit from someone using a particle remover. one picture with rain and parcticles he had 28 fps with the disabler running his fps was 110+ the picture did not show any tool names had no links nothing in chat. it got removed because

"Please do not post images of, or encourage use of prohibited software, as this is against our guidelines."

they will likely do anything or remove anything that shows proof how particles and rain are the main cause for the shitty fps people are getting and force others to play the game how they want no matter if someone gives a flying fuck about "depth" and "immersion" or not they will simply force it onto you.

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Esto wrote:

this is bullshit and GGG knows it.

i posted a picture on here i found on reddit from someone using a particle remover. one picture with rain and parcticles he had 28 fps with the disabler running his fps was 110+ the picture did not show any tool names had no links nothing in chat. it got removed because

"Please do not post images of, or encourage use of prohibited software, as this is against our guidelines."

they will likely do anything or remove anything that shows proof how particles and rain are the main cause for the shitty fps people are getting and force others to play the game how they want no matter if someone gives a flying fuck about "depth" and "immersion" or not they will simply force it onto you.

I saw that too but didn't look into it more though I really should (fkn TOS!!!!!!!). It seemed very legit.

It occurs to me that GGG doesn't want to allow us to turn off particle effects because they make a ton of cash off those effects and EVERYBODY needs to see them. How about if GGG were to change its thinking and say to themselves... if someone buys an MTX they are going to want particle effects turned on so they can actually see what they bought. Make it an option! I'm sure if ever I get a good network connection to GGG servers I will consider it.

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greatwhitepine wrote:

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Esto wrote:

this is bullshit and GGG knows it.

i posted a picture on here i found on reddit from someone using a particle remover. one picture with rain and parcticles he had 28 fps with the disabler running his fps was 110+ the picture did not show any tool names had no links nothing in chat. it got removed because

"Please do not post images of, or encourage use of prohibited software, as this is against our guidelines."

they will likely do anything or remove anything that shows proof how particles and rain are the main cause for the shitty fps people are getting and force others to play the game how they want no matter if someone gives a flying fuck about "depth" and "immersion" or not they will simply force it onto you.

I saw that too but didn't look into it more though I really should (fkn TOS!!!!!!!). It seemed very legit.

i did alot of research into this because i would really like to play poe with other people in parties without my fps dropping from 70 while soloing maps to a solid 15 or below. particle removers have been around like more than 2 years ggg already has been asked back then when the first one was released if they ouldnt add options for this ingame.

theres nothing really more to know about that topic.


ggg is doing a hell of a good job when it comes to gameplay but anything else is just really bad. like really bad... people have been asking for years now to get this option with no answer.

Ah it's a shame. I posted reasons as to why people are encountering issues.

To put it simply, in beta, the game had a lot less effects going on. Now it has a lot more.

Unfortunately people think they can still run the game as if it's still in beta.

I totally agree they should add an option to turn particle effects off. I'm certain they will add it.

I also totally believe you whiners don't deserve it.

Particles arent the only thing that will cause this game to run slow on old computers. When you get your switch, i'll be here to savor your tears.

Goodnight ingrates.

@devs. You poor bastards. So much respect for you guys. It's painfully obvious to anyone who has a working knowledge of I.T. to see how much effort has gone into this game with such a small team.

Your work is sincerely appreciated.

EDIT:

Those of you having your "fps" drop in parties. Not everyone is in the same zone. If you go to someones hideout in the US, and you are from Australia, you will experience a higher ping.

Older computers will not be able to handle the increase of effects either. As this game progresses, older computers wont even be able to render the background. Deal with it.

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Baxta wrote:

Ah it's a shame. I posted reasons as to why people are encountering issues.

To put it simply, in beta, the game had a lot less effects going on. Now it has a lot more.

Unfortunately people think they can still run the game as if it's still in beta.

I totally agree they should add an option to turn particle effects off. I'm certain they will add it.

I also totally believe you whiners don't deserve it.

Particles arent the only thing that will cause this game to run slow on old computers. When you get your switch, i'll be here to savor your tears.

Goodnight ingrates.

@devs. You poor bastards. So much respect for you guys. It's painfully obvious to anyone who has a working knowledge of I.T. to see how much effort has gone into this game with such a small team.

Your work is sincerely appreciated.

EDIT:

Those of you having your "fps" drop in parties. Not everyone is in the same zone. If you go to someones hideout in the US, and you are from Australia, you will experience a higher ping.

Older computers will not be able to handle the increase of effects either. As this game progresses, older computers wont even be able to render the background. Deal with it.

thanks for showing that you have no clue what you are talking about and are basing your opinion purely on assumptions. now please move along before people start believing that hogwash you are spouting.

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Baxta wrote:

1) Thats not from dxdiag.

The reason I ask for the actual specs is in the hope the devs can create exact environments to test the issues that people are having. "DDR RAM 4GB" isn't helpful. "HDD 640 Gb" is also missing information.

Thats not dual graphics card. The 6480G is disabled?

3) Based on those specs, you wont be able to run most newer games well, let alone PoE.

2) The reason it's gotten worse since beta is that they have updated texture models and a whole bunch of other things.

Conclusion : Your laptop is old and unpowered. It wont be able to play newer games well.

1) As i said: you don't need dxdiag of every PC to implement "particle switch" in PoE.
The problem is within' the gamecode and in "how game-engine handle particles".

Not to mention that GGG won't be able to recreate EVERY PC to run the tests.
And even now they didn't get the issue completely: it's not only (and not the main part of the problem) area loading times but the "walls of rain particles" lags IN the area.

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Baxta wrote:

If you were able to run the game on medium settings in Beta, theres no chance you can do that now.

2) Why not? Weird, but GGG claimed (from time to time) that they "improved caching", "reduced assets", "reduced the load", "lightened the textures", "we continue to constantly improve the graphics".
Try to give concerted information and not dig their grave more deeper.

3) Based on my 30+ characters and masters level 8 - i'd say that i'm running PoE pretty good. :D
(which i described twice already but you chose not to read it)
I can also say that you read through the lines, picking only those which you can argue with.

Nowhere i asked GGG to help me to run Crysis 3. I've asked to give people some more tweaking options, because it's a 2015 now and the 2007 game "behave inappropriate" for itself and its requirements (let alone the implementation and visuals)

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Baxta wrote:

Sorry if I seem rude but I deal with this pretty frequently at work.

You are. Please leave your work at work. Here you are the same "player" as we.
Stop treating other people like pleb also. That's really bad attitude.

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Esto wrote:

thanks for showing that you have no clue what you are talking about and are basing your opinion purely on assumptions. now please move along before people start believing that hogwash you are spouting.

+1

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Perq wrote:

- Asus Radeon R9 270X, 2GB DDR5 (256 Bit)
Total of around 620$ (converting, it may vary, because I simply converted it from currency in my country to dollars...), not counting in SSD, with it would be around 800$.
I'm still having problems. To date, I ran everything on highest possible settings, with no problems.

Perhaps your card is the problem? Not that it's not capable but maybe you have some setting that is messing with the game? Have you used the raptr utility? Please don't compare a AAA title to PoE. It doesn't make sense and it's hardly a fair comparison.

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Perq wrote:

So, I STRONGLY disagree that this lies on user end, and that user needs to throw even more money, because game is terribly optimized.

The problem is that in most cases, it does lie with the user. Have you tried borrowing an nvidia card or something? We all know that AMD GPU/CPU causes issues. Maybe in your cases it's just the GPU? I play on a MUCH weaker system than yours and my fps is only unplayable in very rare circumstances. I'm having issues now though because I'm using a new ISP and playing over wifi though.

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unsane69 wrote:

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Supernaut6 wrote:

If you don't want to think about that stuff, buy a console.

As for people complaining about the platform the tests were performed on, come on fellas. That is a really low bar.

I'll murder these 2 too, while I'm at it.

1. But, this is not a console game! This is a pcgame. You do know what those have, right? That's right: OPTIONS! Graphical options, usually more than you can shake a stick at. Playing on a top tier diamond encrusted plated gold tower with a gazillion gigaflops, turn 'em up. Playing on a refurbished toasteroven; turn 'em down. That is pc gaming.

2. What do we know about what the platform was tested on?

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Chris wrote:

The machine I tested on also has integrated graphics (Intel HD 5000).

That's it. Notice the wording. It's not even clear if it WAS tested with integrated graphics, just that the machine had it. So does mine (Intel HD 4600), but thats not what I use for games. So let's quit discussing something we don't have info on, OK?
And even if it was the test GPU: Yeah, thats a low bar. But it might also suggest that whatever problems people have it isn't only related to the GPU itself.

You'll murder me huh? What for, for making sense? Yes this is not a console game and guess what, their are already options there. Enough of them to make the game playable on a weak machine (mine is incredibly weak and I play at 1080p with shadows and AA off). Do you know what happens when you program to a very low bar? Horrible things that will probably drop the performance on the higher end. Special casing for ancient hardware is a losing game.

You might be right about the Intel 5k but I think that's just semantics. I'm sure he ran the tests on the 5k. Right, personally, I think MANY of these problems stem from incompatibility issues. I don't know for sure. My main point is that people playing on potatoes should upgrade and all that are having issues should look at their setups more closely. MY GOD. The game runs decently enough on my machine at 1080p and it's a POS.

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poepropaganda wrote:

The fact that a lead developer wants to act like a system doesn't matter, amazes me.

I think you might have missed something in this thread and the basic issue at hand. I don't think anyone said that your setup is irrelevant, especially in the context you're talking about.

BTW, I'm very curious as to people's specific network specs. My previous ISP was awesome and I played the game wired and over wifi on my laptop and had no issues at all. With my current ISP, I'm playing over wifi on my desktop with some crap wifi dongle and the performance has been atrocious. I think many people are having issues on their networking side and that is being confused for performance issues by some.

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Esto wrote:

thanks for showing that you have no clue what you are talking about and are basing your opinion purely on assumptions. now please move along before people start believing that hogwash you are spouting.

He makes more sense than you do unfortunately. He also has enough courtesy to use capitalization.

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Necrogue wrote:

This game must be poorly optimized because it won't run at 120fps on my machine.

The game is optimized beautifully, because it runs at more than 10 fps with this