Tornado Shot is a joke right?

Shockwave totem has gotten many buffs... after it was initially released OpieOP and nerfed into the ground.

On release it did a boatload of damage, hit the whole screen, sent shockwaves 3/s, and had a 5% crit chance. This was also with old AB that didn't remove non-totem damage.

Shortly afterward, its damage was halved, its aoe was halved, its frequency was halved, and its crit chance was removed. And AB was fixed to no longer be free power.

Now, years later after much buffing and making it a spell (for reasons unknown)... it's actually okay again. If you haven't played SWT since 1.2, you should. It clears stuff fast, especially if you abuse its "spell" properties by running PA on low life (and Hatred/HoA for big damage scalars) and using spell% caster weapons.

---

EDIT: I'm confused. What does this have to do with the topic? Is this topic done?

"

pneuma wrote:

EDIT: I'm confused. What does this have to do with the topic? Is this topic done?

Probably, not much left to say.

"

pneuma wrote:

Shockwave totem has gotten many buffs... after it was initially released OpieOP and nerfed into the ground.

On release it did a boatload of damage, hit the whole screen, sent shockwaves 3/s, and had a 5% crit chance. This was also with old AB that didn't remove non-totem damage.

Shortly afterward, its damage was halved, its aoe was halved, its frequency was halved, and its crit chance was removed. And AB was fixed to no longer be free power.

Now, years later after much buffing and making it a spell (for reasons unknown)... it's actually okay again. If you haven't played SWT since 1.2, you should. It clears stuff fast, especially if you abuse its "spell" properties by running PA on low life (and Hatred/HoA for big damage scalars) and using spell% caster weapons.

---

EDIT: I'm confused. What does this have to do with the topic? Is this topic done?

Why wouldn't I just... use another spell on a totem that's actually useful, hits ranged enemies, and doesn't cause more desync than multistrike Flicker?

"

casval776 wrote:

Why wouldn't I just... use another spell on a totem that's actually useful, hits ranged enemies, and doesn't cause more desync than multistrike Flicker?

Good question, and the answer is the usual one - it will outdps pretty much anything you can currently put on spell totem and it's more durable than your usual immobile wooden assistant because of quality bonus and because melees can't touch it - or you. To make the long story short, it has certain advantages. If you're ready to put up with its quirks it can be powerful... well, pretty much the same reason anybody would play multiflicker :)

That's why I mentioned it, I wanted to know how many people gave it an honest chance and what was the biggest reason they gave up on it.

"

raics wrote:

"

casval776 wrote:

Why wouldn't I just... use another spell on a totem that's actually useful, hits ranged enemies, and doesn't cause more desync than multistrike Flicker?

Good question, and the answer is the usual one - it will outdps pretty much anything you can currently put on spell totem and it's more durable than your usual immobile wooden assistant because of quality bonus and because melees can't touch it - or you. To make the long story short, it has certain advantages. If you're ready to put up with its quirks it can be powerful... well, pretty much the same reason anybody would play multiflicker :)

That's why I mentioned it, I wanted to know how many people gave it an honest chance and what was the biggest reason they gave up on it.

I gave up on it because Zombies do everything better.

The end.

OFC it's joke show me another build beating uber for like 3ex? All the build guides extol its cheapness while do uber they admit OP like Grocery in his vids. Best price/performance in the game. But I guess something has to be.

"

Aim_Deep wrote:

But I guess something has to be.

This is too defeatist to me.

GGG might as well add a skill with 10000% Damage Effectiveness that hits the whole screen and is immune to reflect. It'd be OP as fuck and you could kill Uber Atziri for 1c, but hey, I guess something has to be.

"

pneuma wrote:

"

Aim_Deep wrote:

But I guess something has to be.

This is too defeatist to me.

GGG might as well add a skill with 10000% Damage Effectiveness that hits the whole screen and is immune to reflect. It'd be OP as fuck and you could kill Uber Atziri for 1c, but hey, I guess something has to be.

The point is there will always be something stronger than others. Perfect balance impossible. This isnt chess with two identical sides with identical pieces its a complex game. In fact white is OP even there as simple as it is.

Anyway TS get nerf something else will be in chopping block that next OP.

in a balanced game relative strength would be like this:

95, 98, 101, 99, 97, 100

currently it is:

95, 99, 94, 140, 102, 98...

while noone has a problem with first scenario (while there is still a 'best' choice), the second scenario is rather a different story

"

Aim_Deep wrote:

The point is there will always be something stronger than others. Perfect balance impossible. This isnt chess with two identical sides with identical pieces its a complex game. In fact white is OP even there as simple as it is.

Anyway TS get nerf something else will be in chopping block that next OP.

Perfect balance isn't needed.
"Close enough" balance is the ideal.

I don't care too much about the power difference between LA and Ice Shot. They're both pretty much okay and compete with each other a little bit.

I do care about Tornado Shot which outperforms everything. It's Akuma. SSS tier. If you're not using it and you care about being optimal, then you're simply doing it wrong. It's a no-brainer decision that reduces the amount of interesting variety in the game.

---

To be complete, this position is not a strictly nerfing position either. I would love to see the low power things in this game get some love as well.

It was a good thing that Shockwave Totem was brought back to life, for example. I don't really like how they did it (making it a "Spell" is just too bland when previously it was a curiosity that it only scaled off of physical%), but they did do it.

God knows there's enough unused/wasted content in this game already.