State of PvP
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I started playing LLD PVP in standard about 2 days ago (no previous experience) And to be honest i find its a mess right now. I tried the FFA event and really didnt know wtf was going on. It simply seemed like i had no chance at all in any of the fights. My lack of experience was clearly a huge factor. I totally understand that its suppose to be a carnage in the arena but i was hoping to be able to do a bit more than simply trying to put on my aura.
My first though after the 5 first minute was how am i going to learn to fight in FFA matches and get better. Its seems to me like most of the time the arena is empty (outside of events) and im not even sure LLD character can join the arena to practice. I think one of the big problem is that PvP isnt that popular right now and the gap between the new wave of players and the more oldschool players is huge. I dont mind playing/trying/building/dying/loosing thats what the game is about but right now i feel like i'm a lvl 28 character trying to fight 10 big boss at the same time. Here are some stuff i would like as a starting player. -better spawning timing. Either longer/not triggered by putting on my aura or simply 10 players starting at the same time in the arena in different part. (Seriously having someone spawn on top of you and cycloning you into oblivion when you are a ranger is really sad) -better matchmaking. It seems simple as a concept to match players throughout the event with player with the same kill/death ratio as you. (This is base on my experience in FFA if it works otherwise in other event good!) -more events. I still dont understand why their isnt 1 Pvp event per hour. I feel like we are limited because of the rewards. I understand that giving out 24 pvp '' demigods'" per day is crazy but i would trade less rewards for more event ny day of the week, -provide a clear chat/party sytem in game for PvP. Ive had one of the most frustrating experience tonight while trying to do the 6v6 ctf. I was simply trying to find anyone to team up and try the damn thing but i was stuck in my hideout with no ways to comunicate to anyone except fking global chat. As a result i could not try the event (wich according to everyone is one of the best event around) and i check and saw only 3 team registered..... So if i understand corectly 6 person out of 18 got the '' demigod '' if thats not flawed then i dont get it. -find a better way to share winning build. With the sme thought process as Magic the gathering when you win an event (or get yourself in top 10) provide player with the option of sharing their build. I could be.a seperate part in the forums where you get each event and each winning build. Create something automate wich import the tree + gear so the player dosent have to do it (i say it like its a simple thing and i dont know if it is but it seems simple) this way we could gather info on the metagame and new players would know where to look. I know by experience it keeps a metagme healthy, it helps the rock/paper/scissor rotation to flow and it helps to isolate broken things. These are the few things that i think would made the format more wlcoming to new players. This is the opinion of a brand new pvp player so maybe some of these things are already covered and i dont know about it. And btw if any of you guys have great ressource video or txt to where to start a pvp career let me know i really want to get deeper into this madness. |
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" The stickied post at the top of this sub-forum by Fightgarr is a great starting point. Last edited by ZenithStar on Dec 27, 2014, 2:35:59 AM
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Good post I found. I'll just share my experience with PvP in PoE so far as a really a non-pvp player. Now before you dismiss this I would just like to point out that the only way you get more pvp players is by converting those who aren't so I think it does matter how this is presented to regular players rather than just those hardcore pvpers because without numbers there's no reason for GGG to keep putting money into developing it.
Anyways I haven't touched it at all really other than one cutthroat up until 1.3. 1.3 started and of course I'm playing the new leagues but I'm interested in the new master and in particular I would be interested in getting his hideout location. I think this is one good hook at least for more casual people. Anyways I'm a fairly casual player and certainly not the best albeit not horrible. Right now mostly playing torment after croaking at lvl 50+ in bloodlines. So I figure I should give pvp a try and do daily for this new master and try to get rep needed. Get first daily which is some goal in related to pvp match. Cool so I look around and find out how to join a pvp match (btw menu shows wrong key if you've remapped key like me where b is inventory) and then I wait. And wait. And wait some more. 30 mins later of waiting for low level 1v1 when I was 24 I leave queue. Try 3v3 queue. And wait. Nothing after 10 mins. I've gotta go so quit game bit frustrated. Next day I get a new quest so decide to give it a try. Goal is to stay alive for 180 seconds I think in arena. So head to the arena and a few people are actually in there. So I run around shooting them some and running away. Feel like I'm lasting a while so start looking for a timer but don't see one. No idea how close I am to meeting the goal. I die. Try again and die quick to decked out character. Die again. That guy leaves, others still there. Bit frustrated not knowing where I stand with this quest so I go hide in bottom corner under tree and just afk. Nobody notices me for 1 minute, 2 minutes, 3 minutes. Quest complete. Yay I just completed the pvp daily by avoiding pvp good stuff. Now lvl 2 with Leo. Next day get daily of win a match as one of three classes. So I queue and wait. And wait. Holy shit a match is loading sweet. I get the feeling from watching streams there's a way to tell who you're against but no idea how to do that and no help. Try putting on my aura but can't do that, char is frozen during countdown. Can't prepare at all. Match starts, get aura on, run out, proceed to get wrecked by decked out lvl 28 character (I'm 25 or 26 at this point). Obviously this is someone into lld. Quickly lose all 4 rounds and the match. Click button at end to renter queue. Get match immediately which I thought was great; but of course it's just against the same person so proceed getting rofl stomped all over again. Figure this really sucks and wondering if I'll ever get Leo to lvl 3 and what a pain in the ass this is and all the reasons I typically don't like pvp in games (namely due to poor matchmaking and rewards). I figured what the heck I'll try one of the pvp characters so go make one. Queue and wait. And wait. And wait. 30 minutes later I quit, guess the guy killing me got tired of waiting and/or stomping me. Next day I try again. This time I get quest to kill someone in arena, no problem. Head to arena with my pve character now lvl 28. Actually happens to be a few people there about my level playing around. I'm actually a couple levels higher than them. I get kill and but keep at it because the duels are decently fun. Die some, kill more, enjoying myself. Quit when higher decked out player joins and everybody basically leaves. Now about 600 rep short of level 3. That was a while ago now. I haven't been on every day to try but since then I've gotten 'kill someone in 25 seconds in a match', 'win a ctf match' and 'win a match as 1 of 3 classes' quests. Each attempt with those has ended in utter the tired frustration of nobody at all in queue so getting no matches (haha 3v3 ctf match good luck) or getting completely stomped in 1v1 match even with pvp char while also having to wait. -- So this is where I stand now; I'm pretty fed up with it and still sitting about 500 short rep wise. If the goal was to convince me to get into pvping in PoE this game has pretty effectively done the exact opposite. I don't know the best solution but I think if you want pvp to succeed then there really needs to be better thought into making a system that introduces pve players to it. The sarn arena against roughly equal level and geared pve players who were just leveling like me was good stuff. Was sad to see you get no reward of rep at all for killing in there as that could have been fun place to get more hooked and a reason to grind. Anyways sorry for the long rant. tl;dr is basically right now the game is pretty horrible for getting pve players into pvp I find. Thanks for reading it all if you did. |
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Maybe the first post i see from you skyforth that was worth reading and not random raging words and sentences, for that well done. Lets jump on topic though. Post will probably be quite big
Indroduction
First of all i will speak as an alpha tester, in order for everyone to see that im not biased at all, especially when it comes to balance. Well, long things short, my build in alpha (as well as now on live servers) is a pillar duelist. In alpha i was doing really bad (partially cause i had little experience and also bad gear in the start), but then the trigger gems arrived and everything changed. I was one of the first to say that trigger gems (even if they were such a huge buff for me) needed a serious nerf in every aspect if they were going to be eligible for pvp. Some of them got actually nerfed, but were still strong and i could see it in my duels, i kept on asking for nerfs, especially in the way they work, since as a pillar user i could use both vengeance and riposte and could get so many free counter attacks. Unfortunately nothing changed in that aspect and now we can see 1h+shield builds just wrecking everything in their way since they can use all 3 of them in the same time. Ive seen high lvl gear duels that ended with only one attacking and the other just using pots and winning with triggers.
After a while in alpha i started testing different gems to see how they actually work, and then i saw the now-super-hyped cyclone. Guess what, besides the crazy dmg output of the skill without even the same supports needed for other skills, the stun/knockback immunity might seem ok for pve, but for pvp is totally broken. How many melee players now use cyclone? And that number is growing with everyday passing. These thing i mentioned just for the rest to see that by any means im not trying to protect my build or whatever. I will borrow some parts of another post i recently made to answer/countersuggest some of your ideas/opinions. 1)The rock-paper-scissor theory about builds is a fairy tale, best gear, 95% of the time, means win. Even if rock-paper-scissor theory applies (which again i say, it does not, or at least not 100%), 3v3 matches will eventually become two teams with one build from each category each. Or even worse if the current meta stays the same, then every team will have either 2melee + 1ranged or 2ranged +1melee making all the teams similar if not exactly the same. What you experienced in the 3v3 and made it feel superior to you, was the fun of playing alongside with others, strategy and tactics are exactly the same as 1v1, just in a greater scale. So there will be absolutely no change in that aspect. 2)Swiss events are not based on luck (at least not solely), but depend on your current score to determine your next opponent. Blitz is what exactly you mentioned, and it supposed to be different than other events, as it is. You can make a totally different build in blit, that in swiss it would easily be last, but in blitz you can win the event with it. FFA is exactly that, Free For All, and as we saw there are build that do (did) much better than others (COD im talking to you) and thats supposed to be that way. There is no thing as balanced events. Events are events and have rules, those rules help or punish different builds and thats it. 3) There are already way to few people that care about pvp. Making a seperate realm just for pvp is not in any way profitable for GGG. The crafting suggestion though and pvp/pve tree implementation are a very good ideas towards global balance in pvp (where its needed most) 4) About cyclone read 2nd paragraph inside spoiler. About tornado shot : its not tornado shot that its strong but the corrupted quivers/bows that add +1 arrow. Ive faced on of them in STD and it was really OP, but not because of the gem itself but the general gear. 5) Freeze already got nerfed hard and i rarely see anyone complaining about it. On the other hand a lot of people complain about stun and as i told them i will tell you too : US/Chayula/Cyclone/Heart of Oak, Leo's Craft and a different aspect of stun avoidance Block/Dodge 6) 1shot fest not true at all when close in gear power. 7) Latency/desync/technical errors/bugs/problems are always looked into by GGG (and unfortunately never fixed). A lot of people would play pvp if some foundamental problems in that category could be fixed. 8) About FFA arena, though i agree with most of the points you made, two of them are somewhat out of place: "Lose invulnerability after you move, not after you cast your aura or before you even load." You understand that using an aura or a buff is your choise and offers you some advantage right? Why activating it should not let you loose the invulnerability? If thats so then lets start every duel with all our auras. NOPE. Also the "after you move" part of your sentence should be accompanied with "or attack", rangers would be OP as hell if not :). Well i could write another paragraph or two, but the facts remain the same : There are three things that decide the outcome of a fight in the current state of pvp. First and more important of them is gear/gems, second is the class and its position in the tree, and last as well as least influential the player's skill. Unless GGG decides to put a limit in currency/gear/gems used or allow everyone the same craft options and currency for pvp only characters, and seriously rework the tree for pvp then dont expect the lld scene to change in the permanent leagues. Now, about future temporary ones, thats another story for another thread..... Inundated with cockroaches, I am
https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1609216 - labyrinth rework ideas/suggestions | |
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Hi, I want to add my two chaos here as well.
First, I'm not a dedicated PvP player. My high level chars are all made for PvE, but I still like playing PvP with them. The biggest problem with PvP in my opinion is that nobody plays it. In HLD the only thing you will ever find matches is 1v1, which is kind of boring since you usually play against the same few builds over and over again. I think the problem is that there is really nothing you can get out of PvP unless you put in multiple exalts in LLD gear (which imho defeats the purpose of LLD) to win some events. Not even a master with Daily missions will get people to play it. Pretty much every time Leo's daily mission involves CTF you can't do it, because you won't find a game, not even after 1-2 hours waiting. This is really sad since CTF is really fun imho and allows for a lot more diverse builds than 1v1 imho. So, what I'm trying to say is that in addition to balancing 'hardcore' PvP, there should be something to get casuals to actually try it. |
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"I think I was sleeping at that time Keepo , anyways i think you have listed many issues with pvp and ggg should look at it not many people take time to write such a huge text and i do agree alpha had the wrong members Every Class 100 Discord Alex22#8812 if u cant catch me online in Poe Last edited by Fyndel on Dec 27, 2014, 6:22:11 AM
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There is one thing stopping me from trying PvP - the lack of a skill-based matchmaking system.
I'd like pvp to be a challenge, not a game of luck that depends on the oponent that I'm matched against. Even if build X beats Y, Y beats X if Y has mirrored gg pvp gear (or at least that's the impression I get from what I've read). My suggestion - make an ELO rating system (like in chess or go) and let people choose the ELO rating limit of their oponents. It really doesn't have to be ELO (it's just a well-known and imho quite effective ranking system). |
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" if thats the case let OP post his gear here and evaluate his mirror gear. 1 mirror is 190exalted in standard curious how many mirror items he has. | |
"nobody uses mirrored gear in LLD its pointless i wish ggg would get the hybrid accuuracy/phys dmg mod back on crafting it made lld weapons so much easier to craft :(( Every Class 100 Discord Alex22#8812 if u cant catch me online in Poe Last edited by Fyndel on Dec 27, 2014, 7:06:52 AM
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Nice writing, i have nothing more to add, we need improvements and we want them to get pvp finally to a level were we can determine that skill and not gear is the first aspect of pvping.
It's the excitement of getting better gear and gems to improve your own pvp char but it shouldn't be a bigger part as the fight itself. The current meta in LLD tends to become very gear dependend, even more than in the previous versions of poe. On top of that there are some skills who are cleary OP and they have to be adressed in a comming patch, the current season is already declared, for myself, as a testing ground and not as a competitive environment. There is no joy for me to play and many people stick to it because of the rewards and not of the gameplay. I'm curious how the alpha testing of the pvp content don't discovered the most obvious op stuff and gamebreaking bugs, but i can't discuss that here because I'm one of the alpha testers, unfortunately i hadn't the time to fully participate in so i won't blame anyone here, it's just sad to see LLD in the current state of decay. I hope for improvements to the balancing side, tournaments and bug fixing in the near future. =Licht ist Leben=
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