risk/reward isn't coming. ever. [I give up]
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IT CANNOT BE DONE BY DESIGN, AS SIMPLE AS THAT
1) There is ZERO skill based combat in the game. ZERO. The only "skill" people are talking about, is moving out of the way on telegraphed attacks. Sure this is is nice but it does not require SKILL. And desync, for some people eliminates the chance to even do that consistently. This is not Dark Souls. The fights, NOT ONLY IN POE, but ALL D2 style Dungeon Crawlers were gear checks, which brings us to: 2) When you have a certain level of gear, there is ZERO RISK involved. You can faceroll 99% of the content within minutes. My lv96 flicker striker, could solo everything with zero risk of dying, except some unfortunate situations with extreme desync happening. The only dangerous encounters, were 1) Aluuring Abyss and 2) 3-4 bosses with ridiculous mod combination. 3) The one time the implemented risk/reward, meaning Uber Atziri with easy access to Atziri's Acuity, it backfired because of (2), enabling few players with a certain build to gather wealth beyond reason, in just a few months. The only way to do that without backfiring, it would be to make certain items non-tradeable, and they will not do that. It is against their desgin principles. I certainly find it ridiculous that a "pack size" map, has higher chances dropping maps than a "-max resists" + "extra damage as ..." + "exrtra projectiles", but adjusting this to be the opposite, is in my opinion the closest you can do in the "risk/reward" situation. PoE is an amazing game, doing perfectly what is designed to do. If you do not like it, or agree with it's design, you can start another game to overcome your addiction and quit it. I had my issues with the game as well, but i realised that IT WAS NOT THE GAMES PROBLEM, IT WAS ME. I sure did not like it's design, and just played out of addiction. So i just quit around 6 months ago and never looked back(just logged in a few times to chat with pals), besides the Forum. It was not even that hard :P https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/417287 - Poutsos Flicker Nuke Shadow Last edited by Poutsos#0458 on Nov 8, 2014, 8:35:21 AM
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" Why are you actling like it's either strawman, acting dumb or personal attacks? All of my posts are neither but you don't respond to mine or many other people obvious counter arguments on how do you make risk verses reward in a game based on slaying countless monsters effortlessly and you can turn any risk into no risk at all. You do not "make" threads about risk verses reward, you do no talk about what is a "risk" and how do we measure a risk and what kind of reward is equal to said risk. You literally 100% of the time complain about "there is no risk vs reward" and "more skill harder fights should give better loot." which is extremely vague and goes into 0 details all the while never responding to any counter argument because you are "so cool" that your above proving your own points that you never go into detail to begin with. You want people to read your posts and care but you do not give the same courtesy to other people. Last edited by RagnarokChu#4426 on Nov 8, 2014, 8:27:59 AM
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Risk vs. reward is poorly implemented in two areas imo:
1. The low correlation of map iiq and the amount of map drops. 2. Hardly any incentive to engage map bosses that have a realistic chance of killing your char. " Can you clarify what exactly you mean? What did other ARPGs do better in terms of risk vs. reward? Diablo 1: Farming lazarus and Wirt over and over till the desired items drop. Finding a King's Bastard Sword of Haste was prolly as difficult as finding a high tier unique in PoE. Trading was not an option for legit players. All RNG, no risk. Farming the best items with decent rolls took years. Diablo 2: Doing bossruns over and over till the desired items drop, or trade for them. Usual reward for killing hell baal: Isenharts Chest. Titan Quest: Only played offline solo. Played and farmed a lot but never saw most of the good legandaries drop. It had really nice loottables and all but most drops were, as in every other ARPG I've played, just crap. Getting the best items without trading was roughly equally hard in all those games and PoE. The difference seems to be that PoE has additional content where these items can be put to good use (high maps). In other games, they would simply make a godlike char even better. The second reason that might invoke droprate QQ is that you can see guides and streams of people with that gear everywhere nowadays. Even some solo selffound players compare themselfes to them. Last edited by Sa_Re#3411 on Nov 8, 2014, 8:53:45 AM
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" Because he can't refute our valid points. It's a classic strategy from Mr. Keys. GGG banning all political discussion shortly after getting acquired by China is a weird coincidence.
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" That's how hes so easy haha. Dys an sohm
Rohs an kyn Sahl djahs afah Mah morn narr |
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" make one valid point. one. explain it. with respect towards both yourself, and the one you're explaining to. no strawmen and no BS. no insults and no trolling. for reference, search this forum for posts by RogueMage, DalaiLama and Raics. maybe some old ones by Scrotie. just a couple examples to get you started. when you are ready, I'll gladly respond. consider this a call-out. an "I don't think you can write mature posts" call-out, to be exact. Alva: I'm sweating like a hog in heat Shadow: That was fun Last edited by johnKeys#6083 on Nov 8, 2014, 9:29:06 AM
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" Dont take it literally. Risk/reward simply means being rewarded proportionally to content difficulty, not that you need to risk you char life. In PoE it's all random. Got the best gear from the most easy mobs (in absolute terms, not relative build specific) and plenty of nothing from hard ones. Atziri is the content with currently most risk/reward. I know the reasons why looting is so random and nobody here wants pure determinism. But a bit more 'contextual' looting wouldnt harm. When night falls
She cloaks the world In impenetrable darkness |
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" PoE still offers way more loot from bosses than from random mobs. When doing a map, the amount of rares I get from the boss most likely equals the amount I got from the rest of the map. So this is quite basic "risk vs reward", because the boss is supposed to be tougher. However, 99.99% of rares and 99% of uniques are just trash. The boss still has a higher chance to give you that 00.01% rare or 1% Unique than a random mob, but as numbers are so low, it may happen just as likely you get it from a random trash mob in the end. Or never. Higer level affixes are better than lower level affixes. They only spawn in high level areas. Again, this is quite basic "risk vs reward", because the higher areas are supposed to be tougher. However, 99.9% of affix combinations are trash, so it doesn't really matter. I've vendored countless 5-6 t1-2 mod items, as the combination was just awful, and found better combined stuff at Piety. Happens. Still, this is "risk vs reward", as high affixes are looted from high level monsters. The basics are implemented. It's just hidden behind a huge layer of RNG. But that doesn't take it away. You still want to farm high level zones and bosses for potential rewards. 3.5 build: https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/2299519
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" Okay here is a post I just made in the thread and you completely ignored. There is no "strawman", I directly address your entire post and then further ask you what do you mean because it rather seems pointless. I'm not "insulting you or trolling you, and where am I bulling shitting you. If you see everything here as "invalid" and don't even "bother" to try to say anything back then you don't want to respond because you have no answer. For reference your calling other people immature when you don't even try to argue people points back and just "dimiss it" as wrong or "not valid" or "trolling" because they expose flaws in your plan or may be different from your opinion. For your reference I posted along with the likes of Scrotie and we agreed on most but not 100% on all but at least he has the balls to post back in full response with his opinion with actual facts and experience. Like seriously your going to ask for people to look at "other's people posts that may or may not have nothing to do with what your posting or YOUR opinion". Who does "oh if you post like theses people I might flesh out my idea or opinon. Even if you do not "like" my post for whatever reason there are many other posts similar to mine that may be "less" offensive in many different posting styles but you ignore all of them and lump them as the same. Peterlerock Poutsos are examples that are straight forward and also informative but I guess they are "trolling" or "rude" too.
Spoiler
What you actually have left to complain about after all of the updates is "Most casual players won't see uber artizi or have a 6-link shavs." (Which isn't valid, most people period do not see uber aritzri or a 6link shavs by intention because they are suppose to be the hardest and rarest items) This is the only actual criticism of the game you have in your entire post other then what "what is your perfect arpg." They added "real crafting" with masters, progressively made the game easier and make mostly everything accessible. What you literally have left is this "vague" concept of "risk vs reward" in a genre slayer masses amount of monsters with near demigod like power. You still have not answer "how do you define risk vs reward" verses different levels of gear and builds nor realize that risk vs reward is in place already since higher level places drop higher base items and have better drop rates for stuff. No do not tell me D2 has "risk vs reward", you slayed masses amounts of monsters with no risk to yourself or farmed the same boss over 9000 times. Do not tell me "medianxl" had risk vs reward, you farmed the same shit easy stuff a billion times and the hard stuff required some insane crazy gear to do. Do not tell me "torchlight" had risk vs reward, there was no risk what so ever for any amount of reward. Even the hardest game like roguelikes (like rogue) do not have risk vs reward the way you want because you want to mitigate all the risk and only do stuff that's easy to get reward to finish the game. Hell most rewards are completely random and you can 100% luck out on good items easily. You complain and complain but don't offer any actual content, your similar to people who posts they want perfect world peace. Which sounds nice but in reality is extremely complicated thing to do. For example what the hell is "brute force lock grinding.", is that what you call farming in the game? What is "skill force grinding." How do I "skillfully" grind the game when it means slay masses amounts of monsters as fast as possible that pose no risk to me. Last edited by RagnarokChu#4426 on Nov 8, 2014, 10:19:13 AM
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Do it like me,
i do not negotiate with anyone who thinks that mods like Lightradius and thorns are indeed meant to only have a use in detering the itempool. Keep stacking them Resists, glory for builddiversity. +VLFBERHT+ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e80qhyovOnA&list=RD_euDhMDDRq4&index=10 Last edited by Lachdanan#4036 on Nov 8, 2014, 10:12:32 AM
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