Can someone confirm melee getting buffed?
" This is an interesting point, and is most likely the result of how the passive tree was redone. To be honest, I don't see that much of an issue with the easy access to HP nodes, my opinion is that, similar to Oblivion, melee heroes should be (mainly) tankier due to the gear that they wear. This means that if you are wearing some heavy chainmail/platemail, you are getting a lot more defense than some light garment which a ranger would typically wear. So while a ranger may get some amount of HP nodes as a marauder, unless the ranger has like 200+ STR, they would still be wearing the ranger type gear (which provides evasion). If a ranger does have 200+ STR and they are wearing a bow, it comes at a great cost to DPS (and there is nothing wrong with this). There is the obvious issue that nothing is really preventing a ranger from putting on a chainmain. This all goes down to STR requirements (as a reference people can look here http://en.pathofexilewiki.com/wiki/Chest_Armour). I think simply put, an increase to the requirements (for all classes) will help prevent a ranger from picking heavy gear. This means, that obviously if you build a lot of STR nodes, you can get to wear this heavy armor (which unlikely currently, would provide great defense). The fact that people are putting bows on Marauders is a result of being insta gibbed in merciless, I don't see an actual issue with this type of build, so again my point is if any change is needed, then just increase the attribute requirements of items (and obviously make armor a useful stat). I think the new passive tree has greatly blurred the boundaries between different classes, but that is a different discussion in itself. " This is very true, and I think in general GGG should do something innovative in this genre and make the difficulty of mobs increase in other ways than just health/damage. Every ARPG does this, and its what has basically made (proper) melee characters weaker than ranged ones. You just basically hit a ceiling where the damage becomes so much that melee's become unviable, conversely if melees are too strong they just steamroll earlier difficulties (like in D3, I could basically play Monk while masturbating, against boss fights I just held down right click and spammed my abilities every now and then). This is just a result of no ARPG actually standing back, going out of the box, and thinking of a different way to scale mobs apart from health and damage. In proper PvP multiplayer games, challenging games against humans are challenging not because the game gives them more health and damage, its challenging because those humans have very good strategy and tactics. Instead of just scaling HP and damage, they can make increase in difficulties have improvements in mob AI's. For example, im merciless, the ranged mobs would actually attempt to dodge projectile nukes, instead of just standing there and taking hits. Another one would be the units like undying outcast in the early Slarn levels would become much smarter in hit and run tactics. This would allow for far more tactical play and varied play. If GGG has the resources to do this, they should definitely look into it. They shouldn't make the same mistake that LoL with DotA (either completely cull the mechanics, or copy the problematic ones from the other game because they didn't have the dev to do it in earlier stages of the game) |
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" Yes. I've said this before, and I'll say it again. The problems are not with classes. The problems are with characters that close with mobs and go toe to toe. Taking a class focused approach to fixing this won't fix it. Some other solution will be required. I've seen several: 1. Put a keystone near all classes that greatly reduces the ability to do ranged damage in exchange for greatly increased melee defense. 2. Allow the character to equip a "keystone support gem" that, when equipped, does the same thing. 3. Tally melee damage done and use that to conver to melee damage reduction on a timer. I don't specifically care if any of the above or done, or it's something else. Ultimately, the game designers need to figure it out. Given the above choices, I personally prefer #1 or #2, and don't give a wit which it is. If #2, the jewel should be awarded before A3 in Normal. In prior messages in this thread, someone complained about #1, because they don't like manadatory passives. I don't care about that, either. The reason I don't is that the passive tree is a fine way for players to make choices, and it doesn't trouble me at all that all players making the decision to be a melee class all share a passive in common. But whatever. |
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This... Is not looking good for my ideas for Melee Tank Marauders and a Dueling Duelist. Wouldn't it be easier to reverse the current armour formula? The more damage you take the more it resists?
I agree in reducing the range of Ground Slam and Lightning Strike (two skill games I hate.) The idea that Sweep be able to be used with all two handed weapons (Sword, Maces, Axes, Staves) is one that pleases me. I think Cleave should vanish and just be a property of two handed weapons, not likely to happen, but I can dream. I think the bigger issue for me, is that I'm stubborn and I want to TRULY melee, and I won't try the GS/LS builds for any of my characters... |
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" you want cleave to vanish and be 2h weapon property?are you serious?not every melee play 2hand weapon and cleave isnt only for 2hand,it can be used while DW like i do right now.remouve that skill and DW user lose one of the only true melee skill.why remouve skill when you can just make new one?its not like if melee have a hudge selection of skill.some weapon can choose between 1-2 skill only if not less....2hand weapon already have the bigest selection of melee skill.give some love to DW user.some 2hand build are really powerfull right now but DW...not really.why?lack of decent skill. Last edited by zakariusqc#1505 on Feb 8, 2013, 4:23:39 AM
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" From personal experience (first character was a true melee templar), I would not attempt to play such a build past cruel difficulty (even last act of cruel was stretching it). Simply any build that requires tanking isn't really viable past cruel currently As for ground slam, ground slams biggest issue is mainly to do with how stun is calculated, not necessarily its AoE. Lightning strike may need a small damage nerf, and as for power siphon + chain templar, I think that requires an entire thread of its own (and its own discussion) since its a ridiculously complex issue I wouldn't really touch on changing skills too much, because in my opinion skills aren't really the issue (they may need tweaks, but they aren't root of the problem). |
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" In the Top 20 most players do nothing else than play - which doesn't mean they are actually good players. They just have more time than most other players. You don't need good builds or skill to get in the Top 20 - just enough time. " " Your/these builds have almost no damage compared to a good melee / ranged build. All these builds are the safest builds possible - and because of that in my opinion not good but bad builds. (Because it's way harder to come up with a build that deals way more damage and is as safe as a tank bow) There was a turbo (Monsters move, attack and cast 60% faster.) race some time ago. An insane amount of players died there. In the end almost all players were either tanks, (ranged-)melee, summoners or totem users. And well, i played with a tank that could tank an insane amount of pdmg monsters and usually just had problems with ele dmg bosses). So no, melee is not to weak if its possible to tank everything in a turbo race. But yeah, the people sruvived there were good players and knew what they were doing. I think the main problem is that most people here have no idea how the game works and how to make a build work. And because of that they cry and play a build that is hard to fail with. Doesn't mean it's not possible to make good melee builds. And doesn't mean melee is weaker than ranged - because it's not. But yeah, i can argue as much as i want, most people want the game to get easier instead of understanding the game and learning how to beat it. In some month we'll have another boring game because of all the people crying ... really sad. They already made CI and caster-totems useless. |
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" You cannot say, people are just to dumb to create working builds. The game gives you options. And if players uses the options and failed, because they want to play a twohanded or dualwielding not gs or ls spaming melee, it's not the fault of the players. It's okay, if you exploits game mechanics in builds, but player shouldn't forced to do so. And I don't talking of "make it easy", game is hart and I like it. But it's ridiculuos, that incoming damage of a dozen trashmobs couldn't harm me, but rare and unique hard hitters forces me to kite or stunlock them, because they hit me as hart as a ES range build without armor. |
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" I never said / meant that. I wanted to say people give up way to easy and don't think too much about it. I have a problem -> most peoply cry instead of trying to solve it. " Same as above. You can make almost everything work in PoE. As i already said, i played with a tank in a turbo race and he tanked almost everything (only problems were ele dmg bosses). " I agree here. But in PoE you aren't forced to anything - and again, you can make almost every build work. " And you think ranged doesn't have the same problem? Compared to melee we usually don't have an insanely good decoy totem. |
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" If that really is the issue, then you should point out some ressources to alleviate that. Can you name anything specific that players fail to realize when building melee builds? How do you go about making good melee builds? Sure there are tons of players who are posting their "pure glass cannon melee" builds that will obviously fail, but I do think the majority of forum posters knows that defence is paramount for a melee build. Last edited by Cronos988#6572 on Feb 8, 2013, 5:58:10 AM
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" Oem... I don't critizes them as unbeatable. I critizes the forced playstyle at this encounters. And to answer, no I don't think it's a playstyle problem for ranged classes to kite slow hardhiters. It's the way this builds should be played. Taunt-totems for melee heavy armor users to survive incoming high physical damage. That's the issue in game design I mentioned... Last edited by Nibori#5674 on Feb 8, 2013, 6:25:12 AM
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