The -15% exp penalty is obnoxiously bad outdated design.

"

iamstryker wrote:

"

Nagisawa wrote:

"

iamstryker wrote:

If people are going to critique this system then at least recommend an alternative. Losing exp makes deaths sting, what do you propose would be another way to make deaths feel bad to the player?

It doesn't sting, it's IRRITATING. It's FRUSTRATING. And some people have a really short sense of frustration, so they'll leave the game.

They leave the game, GGG doesn't get the money they might have gotten from these people. They get less money? They can't work on this game as much as you'd want.

It's a balancing act, and you know what? Just WALKING BACK to the zone in this game is punishment enough. Especially if you forget to open a portal, which happens.

Frustrating is exactly what I meant by sting. It didn't feel good to die in mario brothers either did it?

If people leave over this then they more than likely weren't going to be here long anyways. People who love the fun stuff in the game will stay even if they get frustrated occasionally over dieing. In this game if you die its generally your fault. Learn from it.

Walking back can suck sometimes but definitely isn't enough. With portals and way points its normally not a big deal at all.

Well at the end of the day, if the EXP penalty frustrates people as hard as D3's problems frustrated people, GGG will just get a massive player loss (it will also hurt GGG more, since D3 at least got the guaranteed 60-90 bucks for the game sale)

Right now, there is a disproportionate amount of people playing the game that are "hardcore" and think any mechanic short of cutting off their balls is appropriate to make the game "harder"

This will change on release, the game doesn't need to suffer the same fate as D3 did because it continued to use frustrating/stupid/outdated mechanics. With the exp system, the end game of PoE is going to be limited to a population of just single digits percentage wise.

No one is going to play a game where a single death costs you 6+ hours in time, especially considering how common death is in those later parts of the game

"

deteego wrote:

This will change on release, the game doesn't need to suffer the same fate as D3 did because it continued to use frustrating/stupid/outdated mechanics. With the exp system, the end game of PoE is going to be limited to a population of just single digits percentage wise.

D3 didn't use outdated mechanics. It suffered because the game wasn't deep enough/rewarding enough. If PoE's death mechanics are too horrible for the majority of the playerbase then GGG can easily change it. D3 was bad at its core which is why it failed so hard. I do not see how the two games can be compared, they are nothing a like.

"

deteego wrote:

No one is going to play a game where a single death costs you 6+ hours in time, especially considering how common death is in those later parts of the game

Thats a bit of an overstatement. I have lost hours and hours of exp and ya it sucked but I realize that it is necessary to the longevity of the game. Easy simple games are the ones that die the fastest which is part of the problem that D3 had. It was far too simple and uninteresting.

If your losing a ton of exp to deaths then you need to rethink your build and farm areas that you can handle. Deaths are not the games fault they are your fault.

Of course I do have some sympathy for desych deaths.

The only thing I don't like about the XP penalty right now is that the game is laggy as hell and it's almost impossible not to die due to lag at times.

I am fairly careful and I still die about once every two hours of play from lag/buggy netcode.

I don't know how anyone can stand hardcore right now with the lag... I'm gonna wait for the server issues to get fully fixed before jumping into that.

"

iamstryker wrote:

D3 didn't use outdated mechanics. It suffered because the game wasn't deep enough/rewarding enough. If PoE's death mechanics are too horrible for the majority of the playerbase then GGG can easily change it. D3 was bad at its core which is why it failed so hard. I do not see how the two games can be compared, they are nothing a like.

And I am saying that the exp penalty is not making the game deep or rewarding. Personally I have stopped playing any late game characters, purely due to the exp penalty

1. I don't have that much time to play 10 hours each day
2. I don't like it when hours of farm is lost in a single second

"

iamstryker wrote:

Thats a bit of an overstatement. I have lost hours and hours of exp and ya it sucked but I realize that it is necessary to the longevity of the game. Easy simple games are the ones that die the fastest which is part of the problem that D3 had. It was far too simple and uninteresting.

If your losing a ton of exp to deaths then you need to rethink your build and farm areas that you can handle. Deaths are not the games fault they are your fault.

Of course I do have some sympathy for desych deaths.

Its not an overstatement, that is how long it takes to get that much exp at later levels. You really do lose that much time if you die late game

"

Undon3 wrote:

Just as the title say. This is NOT a complaining topic about the XP penalty. This is a topic that brings to attention that the higher level you are, the bigger the penalty (in time investment, which as we all know, never comes back...).

I think this should never happen. In the same difficulty, the penalty should be equal for anybody.

Let's take Joe. He has reached Act III Merciless, he is a happy fellow @lvl.62 or so. He goes into the Sewers, eats a poison bomb and dies heroically, losing 15% of his XP.
Joe will probably grind back those 15% in the Docks in maybe 15-30 minutes, if in a group. His loss is what I would say "adequate".

Now let's take John. John is also a happy fellow, he just got into maps, and he stands proudly @lvl.75. He goes into a 66 map, gets frozen, dies not-so-heroically while chain-drinking all his potions. He loses 15% too.
Now, John will take at least an hour (this is very optimistically put) to grind the XP back.

I don't even want to discuss what would happen to a lvl.80+...

The system in place is fine, it's just that not all of the gameplay content is available yet which is why it is hard to grind those higher levels (There is no high level content).

Once all the content is available there will be less of an imbalance in the time it takes to grind back XP with regards to high and low level players because there will then be content appropriate for high level players to grind there XP back.

it's not bad design, and i would assume that if you are here whining about it you are dying enough not to progress.
It's a learning tool...if you keep dying you're doing it wrong, figure it out and get on with it rather than whining here that it's "bad design" when it just you being thick and not learning from your mistakes

"

deteego wrote:

No one is going to play a game where a single death costs you 6+ hours in time

This is an overstatement because people are playing it and are fine with it.

"

deteego wrote:

And I am saying that the exp penalty is not making the game deep or rewarding.

Other stuff makes the game deep. This system does help make the game rewarding because it takes time and effort to play the end game and to achieve high levels with your character. Without a death penalty people could play as fast as they want which would make the content easy and achieveing high levels very easy.

"

deteego wrote:

Personally I have stopped playing any late game characters, purely due to the exp penalty

Thats fine. As you gain currency/gear/knowledge of the game you will eventually come back to it and do better. I had to scrap more than one character in closed beta because they simply weren't good enough.

"

deteego wrote:

1. I don't have that much time to play 10 hours each day
2. I don't like it when hours of farm is lost in a single second

I don't have as much time as I would like either. I don't think that matters to this discussion. Your not supposed to like it, but at least recognize why its important to the game that it is there. As I brought up before it wasn't exactly fun losing at mario brothers and having to start over, but if you could fly through the game without a challenge and with infinite lives then it wouldn't be as great when you did beat the game.

This game is for people who love ARPG's and will play it for many months/years. Taking away the death penalty would really hurt the longevity of the game.

"

Nicholas_Steel wrote:

"

Undon3 wrote:

Just as the title say. This is NOT a complaining topic about the XP penalty. This is a topic that brings to attention that the higher level you are, the bigger the penalty (in time investment, which as we all know, never comes back...).

I think this should never happen. In the same difficulty, the penalty should be equal for anybody.

Let's take Joe. He has reached Act III Merciless, he is a happy fellow @lvl.62 or so. He goes into the Sewers, eats a poison bomb and dies heroically, losing 15% of his XP.
Joe will probably grind back those 15% in the Docks in maybe 15-30 minutes, if in a group. His loss is what I would say "adequate".

Now let's take John. John is also a happy fellow, he just got into maps, and he stands proudly @lvl.75. He goes into a 66 map, gets frozen, dies not-so-heroically while chain-drinking all his potions. He loses 15% too.
Now, John will take at least an hour (this is very optimistically put) to grind the XP back.

I don't even want to discuss what would happen to a lvl.80+...

The system in place is fine, it's just that not all of the gameplay content is available yet which is why it is hard to grind those higher levels (There is no high level content).

Once all the content is available there will be less of an imbalance in the time it takes to grind back XP with regards to high and low level players because there will then be content appropriate for high level players to grind there XP back.

What unreleased content are you referring to? Additional maps? Yes I've heard they'll come in some later patch. I have my doubts this can be considered additional content however.

Or are you referring to additional Acts? I know they are planned, but do not expect one to come sooner than 6-9 months from what I know. Act III just got released.

So we are stuck with what we have for at least half a year. If possible, I'd like to see that in that period, something should be done that would make the death penalty equal across the board in one difficulty, instead of just penalising people (unfairly in my view) for reaching a high level...

It's a beta, no such drastic a thing should be done until all the content is all complete. Act 3 isn't completely finished yet. The game isn't complete, you aren't meant to try and reach level 100 with the existing amount of content.

"

deteego wrote:

"

iamstryker wrote:

D3 didn't use outdated mechanics. It suffered because the game wasn't deep enough/rewarding enough. If PoE's death mechanics are too horrible for the majority of the playerbase then GGG can easily change it. D3 was bad at its core which is why it failed so hard. I do not see how the two games can be compared, they are nothing a like.

And I am saying that the exp penalty is not making the game deep or rewarding. Personally I have stopped playing any late game characters, purely due to the exp penalty

1. I don't have that much time to play 10 hours each day
2. I don't like it when hours of farm is lost in a single second

"

iamstryker wrote:

Thats a bit of an overstatement. I have lost hours and hours of exp and ya it sucked but I realize that it is necessary to the longevity of the game. Easy simple games are the ones that die the fastest which is part of the problem that D3 had. It was far too simple and uninteresting.

If your losing a ton of exp to deaths then you need to rethink your build and farm areas that you can handle. Deaths are not the games fault they are your fault.

Of course I do have some sympathy for desych deaths.

Its not an overstatement, that is how long it takes to get that much exp at later levels. You really do lose that much time if you die late game

I just lost my L68 HC toon trying merciles Vaal. Desynced, got couple rocks in head (that I dodged in my screen) and dead. 68 levels worth xp down the sink.

And you guys whine over 15% XP penalty.

Next HC toon wont go even near merci vaal before L70 and some insane gear :D