The -15% exp penalty is obnoxiously bad outdated design.

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...D3 does not have a death penalty...

Sure it does. It is spelled "the repair bill," and has been at times greatly contentious. I would say that it is mostly meaningless now; however, it is is inaccurate to state that there is "not" one.

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Courageous wrote:

"

...D3 does not have a death penalty...

Sure it does. It is spelled "the repair bill," and has been at times greatly contentious. I would say that it is mostly meaningless now; however, it is is inaccurate to state that there is "not" one.

irrelevant death penalty = no death penalty

Ive consistently argued in favor of more accessibility when possible, without detriment to the game's "difficulty."

In this case, I am adamantly against removing or reducing the death penalty in any way. As a matter of fact, I'm more in favor of making the DP slightly more damning (as well as res penalty) by scaling it as a more gradual increase by act, rather than by difficulty. The DP is the first form of feedback players receive about the viability of their build, and having gradual access to that feedback would reward players with a more immediate understanding of their build's flaws, and allow them more room to make adjust,EMTs over time. This is as opposed to progressing a whole 10-20 levels assuming the build is "good enough" and then hitting a sudden wall when moving up a difficulty to cruel or merciless, where all of a sudden all of the penalties hit at once and the opportunity to fix weaknesses may have expired many levels ago.

Regardless, the DP is necessary, because without it death is meaningless in default. You'd have no incentive to stay alive, simply because you have an abundance of portal scrolls (or the gem) and can simply return to the grind with only a few seconds of load time lost as consequence.

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....irrelevant death penalty = no death penalty....

It hasn't always been minor. The paragon system with all the built-in gold find bonuses sort of made it go away as a factor. But without paragon, you would definitely feel it, if you became regularly careless.

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CanHasPants wrote:

Regardless, the DP is necessary, because without it death is meaningless in default. You'd have no incentive to stay alive, simply because you have an abundance of portal scrolls (or the gem) and can simply return to the grind with only a few seconds of load time lost as consequence.

Yeah, absolutely. If there are no consequences to death then the game just becomes a boring faceroll like pretty much any MMORPG or most other games even in this genre.

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Courageous wrote:

"

....irrelevant death penalty = no death penalty....

It hasn't always been minor. The paragon system with all the built-in gold find bonuses sort of made it go away as a factor. But without paragon, you would definitely feel it, if you became regularly careless.

I played my fair share of D3. Have 10 level 60s. My SC monk is like paragon 71, my wizzy beat inferno in the first month. I played through terrible patch after terrible patch. Even when everyone cried on the forums about the repair cost increases, it was still irrelevant for players that were actually fighting suitable content. 30-40k for a death was about as high as it could get at the peak, still irrelevant in the land of hundreds of millions and billions of gold.

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plusEV wrote:

Hey,

Can you remove the XP reduction penalty by death temporarily?
I do not want it removed from the game forever, but when the game is so laggy as it is now it makes leveling like a bit 3 steps forward and 4 back. Not because I play bad, but because the game makes me lag out on top of 20 mobs that kills me. This happens multiple times a day. This may make new players quit playing because of this problem.

Peace.

D3 does have a death penalty, its a timer. There is also of course repair cost. Those are penalties, by definition

If you die once or twice, its not so bad, but if you constantly die (which is the reason why a death penalty exists), you will basically be brickwalled as your respawn times start hitting 20 seconds plus.

The penalty death timer is actually nice in that it prevents you from proceeding further than you "should" (in this case I am talking about being underlevelled or undergeared). It actually prevents carrying.

Hell if they do it in PoE, they can just make the penalty steeper.

In any case, my point is that the current death system is not without issues

Even though the difficulty curve in this game is ridiculously high (to the point where its too much), it means little because of how easy it is to carry in the game. I have seen level 30's get past the final ACT in merciless due to carrying

Its actually a very odd combination, the game is retardedly difficult after a certain point (for certain types of characters anyways), but you can just get carried through everything

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anubite wrote:

The OP talks about "dying in 1-2 hits" -- I think your build is poorly made or you have bad gear (likely both). You should play the game longer, maybe become a master of it, before XP penalty should be something you ask be addressed. If you aren't good at the game, sure the penalty is stiff... so get better at the game.

If you can't do that, then why are you playing?

GGG wants this game to be accessible, but... not to the point where it provides no challenge and bores its existing playerbase.

Im not sure what game you are playing, but at least in Merciless you do die in 1-2 seconds in the later acts in the game (ACT3 specifically, i.e. blackguards) unless you are seriously overlevelled

I sit around 2k armor (with molten shield) plus ~1.8k health as a Templar, and you do die that fast.

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...I played my fair share of D3. Have 10 level 60s. My SC monk is like paragon 71,...

This description shows you to be a diligent, dedicated, "hard core" gamer.

Your average every day gamer, when they first encountered the heavy repair bills prior to the nerf, the paragon system, and loot dropping like candy, risked reverse revenue flows due to the penalty. Perhaps, however, you were unaware of that. Due to, you know, your l33+ status... >;-/

Anyway, my point here is that there was a time where repair bills were a semi-okay way of keeping people from being too reckless. If they persisted on, they would run out of cash, with about the only feasible option being dropping back 1 Act or so.

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Courageous wrote:

"

...I played my fair share of D3. Have 10 level 60s. My SC monk is like paragon 71,...

This description shows you to be a diligent, dedicated, "hard core" gamer.

Your average every day gamer, when they first encountered the heavy repair bills prior to the nerf, the paragon system, and loot dropping like candy, risked reverse revenue flows due to the penalty. Perhaps, however, you were unaware of that. Due to, you know, your l33+ status... >;-/

Anyway, my point here is that there was a time where repair bills were a semi-okay way of keeping people from being too reckless. If they persisted on, they would run out of cash, with about the only feasible option being dropping back 1 Act or so.

I mean people should stop bitching about D3 so much. Yes it did fail massively in some areas, but in others it did very well.

The death penalty in D3 was actually very well designed (and yes its a penalty, anything that impacts you directly in a negative way when you die is a penalty, thats the definition)

It was better designed than PoE's system, because it actually prevented carrying, and it wasn't so harsh on incidental deaths (however it was much more brutal against constant dying than PoE's)

PoE's death timer is meaningless when you have just gained a level. People just rush through quests (regardless if they die constantly) and then they just farm in easy areas to make up for lost EXP (often in parties). Its actually made some parts of the game pretty boring

The whole point of the death penalty in ARPGS is to prevent you from progressing in areas that are way too hard for you, D3's/TL2 system does this very well, PoE's doesn't.

Yes, I thought the pre-nerf (highest repair bill) death penalty was fine. It got weakened later when the paragon system hit, but I guess a high level paragon is going to be rich regardless.

I don't like the POE system, because it expects me to be on my toes, when in fact, I am home from work, tired, drinking a beer, and relaxing.

p.s. read your post wrong. Must be tired. :-P