How it should have been. Food for thought.

"

geradon wrote:

my hope always was that ggg introducing paid leagues with the option to make them self found would silence these 20-30 very active forum posters demanding some of the current leagues being changed to self found.

dunno how it's going at ggg regarding paid leagues. either they lack the desire for the extra buck or they came to the conclusion development efforts are not worth it now that the only guy they expected to purchase them left the game.



edit:
imho the real problem of players which want to play self found is the missing gratification. yes, they can play self found in the current game already, crippling their gaming experience but people don't recognize it.

what if ggg provided the option to flag your current account to permanently self found? it would include a item wipe and show your new status to other players somehow so they know you're playing the game on a much harder level. and there could be different ladders for self found players?

As a self found player in most any game played,I can tell you,for my own part,that your opinion of self found and what if scenario attached to it garners less than two fucks on the richter scale of what makes being self found,especially hardcore,satisfying.

If I want gratification instead of satisfaction and challenge I'd be more likely to trade for that gratification than I would be to try overcome obstacles in a game being challenged with what a character finds itself.Recognition doesn't even play a part.

Meh.and I didn't even want a SFL. lol

Paid leagues .... kinda like the new trade system,still waiting.

=)

"

TheAnuhart wrote:

I still note that people aren't grasping that the play style of permanent league pyramid economy that they are so protective of and see as being shit on if the OP design had been; gets shit on more and more each day in the current design where the middle and bottom pyramid gets less and less.

Did you even read my post?

These kinds of suggestions are always extremely selfcentered in nature. In fact most of the time they go against what the majority of affected players want. Just look at reddit with its "genious" trade sugesstions. *shudder*


This game is build around items, passive tree gives a minimal impact (in build diversity terms) on builds. They are made through skills and unqiues. If you have to play self found you will never be able to play all the builds you want.

"

ScrotieMcB wrote:

Did you even read my post?

Yes.

Well, I am protective of trade, I'll give you that much. I have good reason to be, which I've all said before and don't feel like reiterating now.

Still, that isn't to say that I don't understand (at least part of) what you're saying about economic troubles in the dump leagues. I'm calling them dump leagues and not permanent leagues because the issue isn't their permanency, the issue is that the temp leagues repeatedly dump into them, especially Standard, which also gets dumped on by dead hardcore characters, both the permanent and temp flavors. Temporary leagues, on the other hand, are completely spared from dumping.

Being dumped into is something which we've come to view as synonymous with permanency, because that's been the core design from the beginning. However, it is not inherently synonymous, but a design decision to make so much dumping into Standard in particular, and into permanent leagues in general. When, where, how, and even if dumping occurs is a design decision and could be designed differently.

Repeatedly is a key word. There is a difference in a design decision which causes a one-time dumping, and a design decision which causes a cyclical, never-ending pattern of dumping.

So it's clear that you didn't like my idea. My questions to you are:
1. Why didn't you like it?
2. Do you not agree that, if your permanent softcore league was dumped into less often from less sources, that the situation would be improved?

"

ScrotieMcB wrote:

So it's clear that you didn't like my idea. My questions to you are:
1. Why didn't you like it?
2. Do you not agree that, if your permanent softcore league was dumped into less often from less sources, that the situation would be improved?

I didn't 'not like it'.
I just didn't respond to it, yet.

The quote you replied to above wasn't directed at you.

The problem I'm seeing (not with your suggestion, but in general) is that the system of temporary leagues dumping into permanent leagues with long term trading isn't good for the system of back to back fresh economy leagues, and at the same time, the system of back to back fresh economy leagues isn't good for the pyramid economy of permanent leagues.

The two clash.

The scenario in the OP would have a major positive effect on the integrity of the temporary leagues.

The scenario in the OP wouldn't help the pyramid economy of permanent leagues, but as said, neither does the current system.

As for your suggestion, I'm not sure how it would help the pyramid economy of permanent leagues, the problem here is simply that the bottom and middle will always be in temporary leagues. The dumping, in this case happening less or less often won't change that in any way.

The day temporary leagues began was the day permanent league economy would begin to fail as the pyramid style it was designed as. Hence why the OP scenario never even went there to start with.

As for the other problem, liquidating to FG or RM and transferring into new temporary leagues.
I can see it not being as easy, with characters remaining in these 'twilight year temp leagues', to move wealth into new temporary leagues, definitely not as easy as it is in the current design. It would depend on just how active they became, if active at all. But they most definitely won't have the resident brokers ready and waiting such as HC and Std do.

It's interesting, Scrotie, it's a thought dish I hadn't planned on chewing, but I'm nibbling, nonetheless.

"

Temper wrote:

If I want gratification instead of satisfaction and challenge

my suggestion meant all of them

i just read the original post again.
given your suggestions on how it should have been implemented (permanent leagues being non-trade and self found):

i'm just curious on how you wanted to enable players with less spare time (and the most money) to perfect their characters in the long run? as you planned it they would have a 4 months slot to get their gear before their char gets more or less item locked.

how would you have made replayability of permanent leagues attractive without forcing players to play temp leagues?

how would you have countered accusations that you made the permanent leagues self found to boost stash tab sales?

"

geradon wrote:

i just read the original post again.
given your suggestions on how it should have been implemented (permanent leagues being non-trade and self found):

i'm just curious on how you wanted to enable players with less spare time (and the most money) to perfect their characters in the long run? as you planned it they would have a 4 months slot to get their gear before their char gets more or less item locked.

how would you have made replayability of permanent leagues attractive without forcing players to play temp leagues?

how would you have countered accusations that you made the permanent leagues self found to boost stash tab sales?

There's some interesting points here.
Remember this was 'how it should have been done' given GGG's plan of having, prioritising, pushing and focusing on temporary, competitive economy leagues as the main focus.

"i'm just curious on how you wanted to enable players with less spare time (and the most money) to perfect their characters in the long run? as you planned it they would have a 4 months slot to get their gear before their char gets more or less item locked"

This is basically how GGG want the game played, soon to be 3 months, in fact.
Again, this isn't 'my favoured design', this is.. with regards to what GGG wanted, they created a game which fit's extremely bad to that vision.

"how would you have made replayability of permanent leagues attractive without forcing players to play temp leagues?"

Why would I have done that? I (as GGG) haven't attempted to do that in the current design, in fact the exact opposite.

"how would you have countered accusations that you made the permanent leagues self found to boost stash tab sales?"

Uhhm, these boards are good for that. I've been told on several occasions that I, as a self found player, doesn't spend on the game as I don't need the tabs required for trading. I know, I'm as puzzled as you maybe will be, but apparently, my jam packed full 123 tabs are an illusion, exile. Any way, I think it sounds like a good plan for GGG, you are turning me around to actually suggesting this.

TheAnuhart u said everywhere u only do Selfound... but you make topic about trade why u care about trade if u play SF, do you really play SF ?!...