How it should have been. Food for thought.

"

Shagsbeard wrote:

I think your design is fine... but you're talking about a different game. The idea of limiting trading to a short term league and having the parent league be account bound isn't a bad one. It's just not PoE and never will be.

The drive to acquire "wealth" in this game is bad for it. Players find that they're stuck in a never ending goal for better and better, even though what they have is pretty darn good. They complain that it's too hard to advance, that items are too expensive.

Your game, if you ever make it, would have all the trading focused on "new stuff" and wouldn't have this market for BiS gear.

I actually might even enjoy trading in a game with this type of limitation in place.

But it can be 1-4 month league, why not?

Or new temp league

I play standard exclusively... I don't have any mirrored items or GG imba OP legacy items but I'm fine with that

People who have those dedicated time or money (RMT) which I can't and that is perfectly normal

I just came back from the game after going broke on a failed character build and started a new build. I liquidated some gear and it went surprisingly well (economy is tolerable if not fine) and now I'm happily playing my second new character since my comeback weeks ago.

My account nets maybe 100-200 exalts so I'm in no way an eternal mirror crafter just an average casual player and trader

"

TheAnuhart wrote:

The reason is because I see a design opportunity missed.
I want to talk about that missed opportunity, the problems the game has because of that missed opportunity and why having a stance without fully considering the negative and positive implications is not good. Especially when it leads to your vision being self defeating.
It's time to open your mind and learn from your mistakes so in future, actually fully considering implications is above a stance based purely on, because.

ok then: your suggestion wouldn't have prevented rmt at all.

if i were a rmt fan and your suggestion of "trading enabled temp leagues dump into acount bound permanent leagues" were realized before, i, as a cheater would just play the temp leagues, let my whealth dump into standard or hardcore when they end and sell the whole account for fg and start a new account, spending the fg for a faster start.

did i miss anything?

additionally account bound items lead to account leveling assholes offering their "service". a disease hopefully not common in poe, yet.

there is no cure against rmt other than (by cc) personalized accounts. which isn't practicable.

"

geradon wrote:

did i miss anything?

Yes. This

"

TheAnuhart wrote:

Sure, you'd have people trying to RMT their ex ladder account in parent leagues, but when I think back to closed beta when Chris's response to how were they going to handle RMT was something like 'Oh we have that covered'; had that 'covered' been 'we've largely limited it to ex ladder accounts being sold' I'd have had a lot more faith than what 'covered' turned out to be, as I'm still for the life of me trying to figure out what 'covered' remotely ever even was, because it failed, it had to, the design itself said it always was going to.

"

mark1030 wrote:

So you basically want to force everybody to play self found if they don't play in a challenge league? I don't know about you, but I like to try a lot of builds. If I couldn't trade for items needed for builds, then I just wouldn't be able to play them. Doesn't sound like it would solve anything except make me not want to play this game at all. If I want to play self found and be stuck playing only builds that I find gear for, I'll go play D3.

Exactly. How ironic that D3 and PoE have in many ways switched places from their original incarnations. D3 is now the player-friendly, self-found RPG, while PoE has become an RMT-driven competitive trade simulator.

If GGG made Standard and HC BOA as Anuhart describes, it would pervert the game even further. Standard players would resort to making purchases in the temp HC league (or in temp SC leagues near season end), and then kill the HC trade mule to transfer the item down to Standard. Botters and RMT sites would simply raise their prices to cover the added risk of doing business in HC, and the game would become even more obsessed with BiS pay2win Uniques.

Contrary to conventional wisdom, Standard is not merely a dumpster league, it continues to maintain an active trade community via POE.XYZ, featuring stable orb rates and the widest selection of items available. While prices have steadily inflated over time, the continual influx of new items keeps rates on all but the Legacies and BiS trophies in check. Players who want to build mature characters for the long-term need a stable environment rather than a 4-month diaspora into oblivion. We don't need everything to be BOA, that's just unrealistic. Most of the RMT-driven excesses would be curbed simply by making Legacies and Mirrored items BOA.

dang, shouldn't post after dinner with beverages. i'm still trying to understand what scrotie suggested, my understanding of english isn't the best. i really mss charan's posts where i had to lookup words in the dictionary ;)
ok, that's it for today's posting.

"

RogueMage wrote:

Most of the RMT-driven excesses would be curbed simply by making Legacies and Mirrored items BOA.

Which itself is an example of how stubborn GGG are. That one single stance 'we are against any form of binding' is ridiculous as binding can cover a wide range of implementations, in both types of items and types of binding.

Why they feel the use of binding in cases such as RogueMage mentioned should be avoided at all costs as if it implies game wide, multi league, no trade, 0 economy, single player game obliteration, is beyond me.

I'm against the amputation of limbs, but I'm not against the amputation af a gangrenous limb to save a life. GGG's total policies are pagan and self defeating.

Create new parent leagues titled

"Parent Standard"
and
"Parent Hardcore"

Rename current leagues

"Legacy Standard"
and
"Legacy Hardcore"

Current leagues become bottled with no more item dump end of seasons. New parents are SFL leagues with "limited trading" through use of ladders. This allows continuity of characters and largely prevents RMT.

"

TheAnuhart wrote:

Well I see me trying to not get people to see this as a change to happen to the current leagues, with current mechanics all bar trading..

And me trying to get people to see this as a hypothetical could have base design, which would have of course been tuned around the design itself.. failed hard.

I still note that people aren't grasping that the play style of permanent league pyramid economy that they are so protective of and see as being shit on if the OP design had been; gets shit on more and more each day in the current design where the middle and bottom pyramid gets less and less.

Edit, ^not implied towards your post, Shags.

By tuning this hypothetical league, what do you mean? That everybody gets every item dropped to them? If not, then my argument stands that you are limiting my ability to make builds. If I don't have the items I need that enable a build, I am just SoL. And if so, that would get boring pretty fast grinding for no rewards. What good is accumulating wealth if you can't use it to get what you need?

And you kind of ignored my comparison to D2, which had a similar economy but with a lot more hacking and duping going on. How do you explain the contrast between the "the sky is falling in PoE" and "the sky didn't fall in D2"? Maybe it's not that people aren't grasping what you're saying. Maybe people do grasp it and think you're wrong based on historical evidence.

"

mark1030 wrote:

"

TheAnuhart wrote:

Well I see me trying to not get people to see this as a change to happen to the current leagues, with current mechanics all bar trading..

And me trying to get people to see this as a hypothetical could have base design, which would have of course been tuned around the design itself.. failed hard.

I still note that people aren't grasping that the play style of permanent league pyramid economy that they are so protective of and see as being shit on if the OP design had been; gets shit on more and more each day in the current design where the middle and bottom pyramid gets less and less.

Edit, ^not implied towards your post, Shags.

By tuning this hypothetical league, what do you mean? That everybody gets every item dropped to them? If not, then my argument stands that you are limiting my ability to make builds. If I don't have the items I need that enable a build, I am just SoL. And if so, that would get boring pretty fast grinding for no rewards. What good is accumulating wealth if you can't use it to get what you need?

And you kind of ignored my comparison to D2, which had a similar economy but with a lot more hacking and duping going on. How do you explain the contrast between the "the sky is falling in PoE" and "the sky didn't fall in D2"? Maybe it's not that people aren't grasping what you're saying. Maybe people do grasp it and think you're wrong based on historical evidence.

I do tend to overlook that a lot of today's and especially PoE's gaming audience want everything on demand. I'll admit that, it does tend to cloud my judgement.