GGG devs, please give us some info on Ball Lightning mechanics - questions inside

I would say that the LMP/GMP issue is up to personal preference.

LMP Ball Lightning is like LMP Burning Arrow, or Split Arrow. Meaning each projectile can hit only 1 target. As opposed to LMP Spectral Throw where projectiles can shotgun.

If you want to clear a wide area in front of you then LMP is useful. If not it is only a DPS loss.

From what Mark said I gathered this:
In case of LMP/GMP: all balls from a single cast can hit 1 enemy 1 time in the 200ms timeframe.
That means that it makes no difference if you have 1 ball or 5 balls; a single enemy will be struck once every 200ms.

TL;DR LMP/GMP is useful only coverage, clearing large packs i.e. having a wide cone of balls:)

You can always get all AoE nodes and a Carcass Jack to hit everything on screen.

On a side note, Slower Projectiles is bad because it lowers the range greatly. You almost need to be in melee range.
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ComradeSerge wrote:
Thanks a lot for the reply, Mark!

I'm still not sure what to do with the LMP/no-multiple-proj dilemma. Evidence seems to speak in favour of no LMP/GMP, but I'm still not completely convinced. For big packs, LMP just seems better...


EDIT: Mark, could you please shed some more light on this, cause it really bugs me now. I even saw someone on the poe wiki added "Lesser Multiple Projectiles and Greater Multiple Projectiles support gems are direct dps loss", which is silly, since it's a truism. LMP/GMP is "a direct dps loss" for every skill, simply because both gems have a "x% LESS projectile damage". But you still use them on numerous skills despite of that. So essentially, this doesn't clarify anything. What is the issue here is if LMP/GMP is worth taking for area clear, which is a completely different thing.


AoE gem is better for AoE purpose than lmp / gmp IMO. since BL dmg is not reduced; there is no target limit as per BL dmg instance; and you probably have a wider close-range AoE too

though you probably can get enough AoE on tree / gears so you don't even have to use the AoE gem.

the best gem setup for non crit BL would probably be :

Spoiler
added lightning: 42% more damage at lvl 20 scenario

spell echo: faster!

lightning pen: for smoother dps against various resistent mobs

life leech: for survival

if you have enough AoE on gears / tree, use slower proj, else use AoE gem here.


crit BL:

Spoiler


just replace added lightning with crit multi.


/forum/view-thread/869543 all my builds' compilation
Please PM me on forum to inform me if I won an auction. Thank you.
Last edited by abcnever on Jul 4, 2014, 6:50:47 AM
A great video from ZiggyD on the mechanics: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2KxtC3Ks04

And he shares my thoughts as well: yes, LMP makes you lose DPS per ball, but it gives you better AoE clear, which is the entire point of using LMP anyway (for skills that cannot shotgun).
1H+Shield High Block&Spell Block Tank: http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/868995
Ice Crash Crit Staff AKA "The Shaterring Karui": https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1289037
Tanky Block+AR+EV Ranger Crit Reave Dagger/Claw: https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1301888
"
ComradeSerge wrote:
Thanks a lot for the reply, Mark!

I'm still not sure what to do with the LMP/no-multiple-proj dilemma. Evidence seems to speak in favour of no LMP/GMP, but I'm still not completely convinced. For big packs, LMP just seems better...


EDIT: Mark, could you please shed some more light on this, cause it really bugs me now. I even saw someone on the poe wiki added "Lesser Multiple Projectiles and Greater Multiple Projectiles support gems are direct dps loss", which is silly, since it's a truism. LMP/GMP is "a direct dps loss" for every skill, simply because both gems have a "x% LESS projectile damage". But you still use them on numerous skills despite of that. So essentially, this doesn't clarify anything. What is the issue here is if LMP/GMP is worth taking for area clear, which is a completely different thing.


LMP/GMP isn't a damage loss to most other skills because you get more projectiles.

Incinerate does 10 damage. LMP has it deal 30% less but gives 2 more projectiles. Incinerate now does 7x3, which is 21. Damage increase by a factor of 2.1.

Fireball does 10 damage. GMP has it deal 50% less damage but adds 4 projectiles. It now does 5x5, which is 25 damage total. Damage increase by a factor of 2.5.

However, Ball Lightning has a limiting factor: each enemy can only ever be hit by a single lightning effect every 0.2 seconds. This means that LMP and GMP reduce the damage done without offering any method to increase it.
"
Natharias wrote:
However, Ball Lightning has a limiting factor: each enemy can only ever be hit by a single lightning effect every 0.2 seconds. This means that LMP and GMP reduce the damage done without offering any method to increase it.

You're missing an essential part of this, I really don't understand why people have so much difficulties understanding this. Yes, one ball does less damage per ball with LMP, BUT - and it's a very important but - you deal that reduced amount of damage to more enemies at the same time, because you cover a lot more area with 3 balls than compared to just 1 (even with inc. aoe).

So, hypothetically, if I'm dealing 100 dps to 10 enemies, that's still less than 70 dps to 20 enemies. That's the entire point.
1H+Shield High Block&Spell Block Tank: http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/868995
Ice Crash Crit Staff AKA "The Shaterring Karui": https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1289037
Tanky Block+AR+EV Ranger Crit Reave Dagger/Claw: https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1301888
Last edited by ComradeSerge on Jul 4, 2014, 11:08:22 AM
Does "increased Area Damage" not work with Ball Lightning? I tried with and without "Amplify" skilled and dps didn't change. I also didn't seem to notice the "increased Radius of Area Skils", but that part should work right?
Yes, increased area damage nodes do not affect it, which is the same reason Concentrated Effect gem has no effect on dps. Inc. AoE works just fine, though, both on the tree and with the gem and items.
1H+Shield High Block&Spell Block Tank: http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/868995
Ice Crash Crit Staff AKA "The Shaterring Karui": https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1289037
Tanky Block+AR+EV Ranger Crit Reave Dagger/Claw: https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1301888
Last edited by ComradeSerge on Jul 4, 2014, 12:50:59 PM
"
nebunelux wrote:

i.e. having a wide cone of balls:)



And really who doesn't want that?
I cant wait to get the gem and try it out this weekend.
~ Long Live the Ruler of Wraeclast.
~ If one of my posts sounds bitter, it might be Thursday.
Last edited by DoubleU on Jul 4, 2014, 6:39:00 PM
"
LMP Ball Lightning is like LMP Burning Arrow, or Split Arrow. Meaning each projectile can hit only 1 target. As opposed to LMP Spectral Throw where projectiles can shotgun.


Spectral Throw is same as Ball Lightning, it can't shotgun.
Last edited by Starxsword on Jul 4, 2014, 8:21:35 PM
"
ComradeSerge wrote:
"
Natharias wrote:
However, Ball Lightning has a limiting factor: each enemy can only ever be hit by a single lightning effect every 0.2 seconds. This means that LMP and GMP reduce the damage done without offering any method to increase it.

You're missing an essential part of this, I really don't understand why people have so much difficulties understanding this. Yes, one ball does less damage per ball with LMP, BUT - and it's a very important but - you deal that reduced amount of damage to more enemies at the same time, because you cover a lot more area with 3 balls than compared to just 1 (even with inc. aoe).

So, hypothetically, if I'm dealing 100 dps to 10 enemies, that's still less than 70 dps to 20 enemies. That's the entire point.


Increased Area of Effect.

Instead of hitting 10 enemies for 100, you hit 15 for 100. 15 for 100 is greater than 70 to 20.

Perhaps you should consider all support gems instead of freaking over just one specific type.

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