About 2 hander's

i always thought being able to have a 6l via weapon was the trade off you got for not having a shield

and can't 2h weapons roll much higher damage mods? I always tend to see my damage rolls much higher on bows and other 2hs than i do one one handed weapons

- No exclusive 2h skills (except sweep.... )
- Only mace is working correctly in it´s theme ( stun )
- Other weapon choices don´t have this strong theme in comparison
- Staff block is too weak
- Swords accuracy makes no sense
- Axe max damage = blunt idea
- Choice of weapon doesn´t matter vs armor types and because of the lack of monster armor -> a "new" armor piercing mod makes no sense, this specially is true when looking at 2handers -> no armor on mobs no sense in increasing phys damage = increased phys damage=2h
- No theme of weapon types vs armor types ( swords vs cloth etc )
- 1 hand shield + crit easier to build and safer than a 2h crit build

Make more 2h skills and introduce a new armor system for mobs and a armor pierce exclusivity for 2h.

"

i always thought being able to have a 6l via weapon was the trade off you got for not having a shield

and can't 2h weapons roll much higher damage mods? I always tend to see my damage rolls much higher on bows and other 2hs than i do one one handed weapons

Both are dps output increases, which are useless in hardcore end-game. That's why we see very little 2-hand builds in lvl 90+, optionally a 6-link could also be utilized for EHP increase by slotting "blind" or something as 6th-link.

However this can be discarded because of the rarity of obtaining a 6-link.

Your point would be just if 2-hander had a higher rate to 6-link.

However most people will see a 5-link, so double 5-link in this case. Given he current state of the game where

AOE > all,

this is useless. All you require is one AOE screen-clearing 5-link. In most cases this AOE is even utilized on single target "targets" like bosses and rares. Further rendering this "benefit" to "useless" state.

So yes, i am aware of these "benefits", does not change the fact they are "useless" benefits.

Edit:

"

Make more 2h skills and introduce a new armor system for mobs and a armor pierce exclusivity for 2h.

Again this focuses on offense, rather then defense, which is the weak-spot of 2-hand builds in the current end-game.

Dps is sufficient as it is, no need to make it easier/more.

i know that 2h and DW inferiority comes not from damage - but from EHP. i know. i whine about block being braindead mechanic for almost a year now (how something that can prevent 100% attack or spell damage is not braindead? esp with how easy it is to reach like 40% attack block for almost-free, making early game a JOKE)

but given that GGG is hell bent on leaving block as is - and improve it by even easier spell block access - there is little hope for non-block solution

% reduction (resistance) will always loose to 75% 100% reduction as long as that hit that passes trough block does not kill a player outright. esp when you can combine both (and game is balanced around such extreme situation)

so, if there is no chance for block changes maybe we can at least make 2h dmg output so obscene that people can invest 95% of their passive into defences as innate 2h dmg output can make up for that (status aliments/effects are an 'elegant' way of granting huge bonuses without doubling pDMG values - and 2h are crap with ele anyway due to attack speed being the king). it seems that this is the reasoning backing 'DW balance change' that happened recently

+max resist is a good idea - no denying. but it is like dousing a fire with gasoline. power creep and ABSURD mob dmg will quickly make 85% res a norm, not an exception.

im not particularly happy about that happening. atziri fight is already a gear check (dps phase) i do not want yet another piece of that..

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Boem wrote:

"

Make more 2h skills and introduce a new armor system for mobs and a armor pierce exclusivity for 2h.

Again this focuses on offense, rather then defense, which is the weak-spot of 2-hand builds in the current end-game.

Dps is sufficient as it is, no need to make it easier/more.

This maybe your opinion. I don´t share this one. The base difference between 2h and 1h is just too low to not see any difference damage wise. Also 2h shouldn´t a) be played defensively b) shouldn´t have the same quality of defense as 1h+shield. But what it should do is a fuck truck load of damage so i don´t even need defense and survive BECAUSE i swing a fucking 7 kilogram magical steelbar. It´s not that i should be a parry master with 2h. It sucks because the damage and "tricks" with 2h are meaningless in the big picture. Well, at least that´s how i see it.

The only addition though i could imagine is introducing hybrid 2hand nodes with life leech or LGoH built in.

But all this aside what 2h really need are more 2h skills.

^my suggestion is indeed based on the "current game state", which moves further and further away from "75% resistance is the norm".

Remember this can always be removed in the future when they decide to "balance" elemental damage and resistance caps.

This was just an idea i had to improve the current viability.

Your suggestion imo does not improve viability sort of speak :/, while i agree with your sentiment, i don't with your suggestion :).

Also keeping a balance of passive tree required ehp/dps is required imo to make "creative" passive tree's and keeping the game interesting.

Else like you said yourself, the option when equipping a 2-hand weapon would just be "skip all dps nodes, pick all ehp nodes", this is not build-enabling or creative imo :/ and limits viability and interesting builds even more.

Edit :

"

This maybe your opinion. I don´t share this one. The base difference between 2h and 1h is just too low to not see any difference damage wise. Also 2h shouldn´t a) be played defensively b) shouldn´t have the same quality of defense as 1h+shield. But what it should do is a fuck truck load of damage so i don´t even need defense and survive BECAUSE i swing a fucking 7 kilogram magical steelbar. It´s not that i should be a parry master with 2h. It sucks because the damage and "tricks" with 2h are meaningless in the big picture. Well, at least that´s how i see it.

The only addition though i could imagine is introducing hybrid 2hand nodes with life leech or LGoH built in.

But all this aside what 2h really need are more 2h skills.

Obviously this is my opinion mate :).

Also this thread is aimed at "hardcore ladder lvl 90+ builds/mappers", at that stage dps is irrelevant and EHP is what really maters and in that area 2-hand builds are very limited.

Also your point of them doing more damage then 1-hand builds is invalid in the current game state, 2-hand builds are out-dps't by crit builds with a 1 hander. However, there dps is "sufficient" as it is imo.

Your viewpoint seems to be from a point where dead does not mater much?

I mean one shooting mobs will only carry you that far, until a mob actually poses a thread and fights back...at which point your lack of defensive options become very clear.

Also i made this thread because 75% resistance seems to no longer be the norm, specially not for "non-block" builds.

Edit2 : i can agree that 2-hand could use more skills do, with the right set of skills and functionality there QoL could improve drastically i agree. However "raw defenses" are still a necessity in a game where your own screen cannot be trusted 100% of the time. And you have no EHP to fall back to in such a case.

I´m just against that i feel your idea of 2h buff is that it should be as tanky as a shield build. And that´s nonsense in my opinion.

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I´m just against that i feel your idea of 2h buff is that it should be as tanky as a shield build. And that´s nonsense in my opinion.

My suggestion actually stretches further then that because it allows multiple theory-craft options.

no requirement to take the +max resistance nodes (this opens up the tree more and gives less restrictions in design)

Don't forget, these nodes are mandatory atm when trying to get in high-end mapping with a 2-hand build, there is absolutely no alternative for them.

Thus the option is created for players, do i go full on "tank" 2-hand build = + max resistance spec + max resistance from 2 hand weapon.

Or do i skip the passive tree nodes with max resistance and go pure HP build instead?

Or do i skip the passive tree nodes with max resistance and go pure dps build instead?

Obviously a mix is also possible, just to say this would impact "dps scaling" if so desired because it enables the possibility to skip a set of mandatory nodes and there "travel" cost.

By increasing the EHP value's and placing it on the "weapon type" you create passive tree "leniency" and this can be shifted to other area's where the player feels the desire to do so,

either more ehp/dps/mix

Peace,

-Boem-

Edit : another thing to note is, this creates a situation where a purity aura is actually not "mandatory", when opted for the "full tank" route, this in turn makes "blood magic" a desired keystone for 2-hand users.

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Spysong192 wrote:

I´m just against that i feel your idea of 2h buff is that it should be as tanky as a shield build. And that´s nonsense in my opinion.

No one is saying it should be AS tanky as a shield build, that would be overpowered as shit.

What we are saying is that 2h builds are too weak defensive wise, atziri is very hard with 2h as are some maps, uber atziri is currently impossible as 2h. We would like to see a solution for that.

"

No one is saying it should be AS tanky as a shield build, that would be overpowered as shit.

What we are saying is that 2h builds are too weak defensive wise, atziri is very hard with 2h as are some maps, uber atziri is currently impossible as 2h. We would like to see a solution for that.

To be fair, the notion of

"2 hand builds should have more dps but be weaker ehp wise then 1-hand shield users"

was thrown out of the window when 1-hand builds were enabled to do more dps then a 2-hand user.

Just my own opinion.

The current game does not sustain this design philosophy, therefore it should not be used as an argument.

Peace,

-Boem-