1.3 The Community's Molten Strike, Face Melting Build!! 1h+shield and 2h variants available

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Dmillz wrote:

This is fantastic information. I didn't know that was how the conversion was done. This makes Avatar of Fire and Added Fire Damage (gem) much more effective than I originally thought. Going to have to think about my links again!

I've thought about Added Fire, and while I really wish I had space to fit it in I'm not sure its really good enough to earn a slot.

First off, here's the link setup I was thinking about running (with AoF):
Molten Strike
Weapon Ele Damage
Multistrike
Life Gain on Hit
Fire Penetration
Blood Magic

The problem with fitting Added Fire in is that most of the other supports I listed are just strictly better in any reasonable situation. For example:
Weapon Ele Damage: If you're running AoF this is clearly the best support by a mile and you'd be crazy not to run it. The only time I wouldn't be running AoF is if I got a 6L, where I would drop Blood Magic & AoF passives, run Blood Magic (support) and Hatred and Grace. Since I'd be running Hatred this keeps Weapon Elemental Damage more effective (Added Fire is would be an effective 28% gain as it doesn't scale Hatred, whereas Weapon Elemental Damage would be an effective 41.6% gain because ~70% of your damage would be elemental between Molten Strike's conversion and Hatred).
Multistrike: Is strictly better if you're running Hatred (because again, it scales Hatred and Added Fire does not), but even if you're not it's almost mandatory solely to get more consistent projectile spread.
Fire Penetration: Mandatory if you don't want to have shit damage against fire resistant mobs, especially with AoF.
Blood Magic: Grants comparable damage by allowing you to run Hatred as well as huge survivability from a second aura (or you could run Haste if you really want to).
Life Gain on Hit: You kind of need to run this or Life Leech if you have AoF otherwise you'll have no sustain (aside from the ~6% life regen you have). Without AoF you could probably drop it but even then it's got to compete with either Concentrated Effect or whatever gem I listed you're not running, so it's definitely got tough competition.

PS: Since somebody asked why I don't run Conc Effect I'll put a short explanation here too.

I think I would run it on a 6L when I drop Life Gain on Hit, but on a 5L I'm not sure on its effectiveness, and it's a tough call what to swap out if anything for the reasons listed above. I would probably have to drop Multistrike which I'm not sure is something I want to do.

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Fearmonger wrote:

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Dmillz wrote:

This is fantastic information. I didn't know that was how the conversion was done. This makes Avatar of Fire and Added Fire Damage (gem) much more effective than I originally thought. Going to have to think about my links again!

I've thought about Added Fire, and while I really wish I had space to fit it in I'm not sure its really good enough to earn a slot.

First off, here's the link setup I was thinking about running (with AoF):
Molten Strike
Weapon Ele Damage
Multistrike
Life Gain on Hit
Fire Penetration
Blood Magic

The problem with fitting Added Fire in is that most of the other supports I listed are just strictly better in any reasonable situation. For example:
Weapon Ele Damage: If you're running AoF this is clearly the best support by a mile and you'd be crazy not to run it. The only time I wouldn't be running AoF is if I got a 6L, where I would drop Blood Magic & AoF passives, run Blood Magic (support) and Hatred and Grace. Since I'd be running Hatred this keeps Weapon Elemental Damage more effective (Added Fire is would be an effective 28% gain as it doesn't scale Hatred, whereas Weapon Elemental Damage would be an effective 41.6% gain because ~70% of your damage would be elemental between Molten Strike's conversion and Hatred).
Multistrike: Is strictly better if you're running Hatred (because again, it scales Hatred and Added Fire does not), but even if you're not it's almost mandatory solely to get more consistent projectile spread.
Fire Penetration: Mandatory if you don't want to have shit damage against fire resistant mobs, especially with AoF.
Blood Magic: Grants comparable damage by allowing you to run Hatred as well as huge survivability from a second aura (or you could run Haste if you really want to).
Life Gain on Hit: You kind of need to run this or Life Leech if you have AoF otherwise you'll have no sustain (aside from the ~6% life regen you have). Without AoF you could probably drop it but even then it's got to compete with either Concentrated Effect or whatever gem I listed you're not running, so it's definitely got tough competition.

Funny you say that. I just spent the last 15 minutes doing the math. Faster Attacks is better than Added Fire without Avatar of Fire at low damage levels, and worse at really high. But with Avatar of Fire (which we determined is a must have for this) it is ALWAYS better.

EDIT: Was too hasty on that. Hatred might still be worth using. Doing math...

Looks like it's still worth using Hatred with Avatar of Fire.

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shahmat1972 wrote:

Marohi Erqi Karui Maul

Any thoughts on this weapon? The Inc AOE Seams nice, esp if you run Conc Effect, but 10% AIS hit ouch?

Also, SO MUCH good information on this forum this far, my dude is only lvl 40 so everything just melts. At some point im going to make a big 6L Purchase ( I have like 20 ex to burn ) not sure if it will be a weapon or chest, but id like to know the final verdict on a 6L set up for maps. Sorry, Im in the Army and Deployed in real life so not as smart as some of you,nor do I have time to do the math ( Or know how lol )

personally I would not recommend a marohi. I love the mace, but invest in a crazy dps rare 2h.
I just bought this @ 1/4 the price of a non 5L marohi or 1/20th the cost of a perf. 6L.

It has about 45 dps more then a perfect marohi. May be easier to score a great 6L weapon then to get a great 6L HP/resist armor. Check PoE and shop around and see what your options are.

note: Marohi will have the highest damage projectiles but its very very slow leaving you vulnerable and requiring a lot of attack speed to counter. That same attack speed also benefits a rare mace as well just the same making one even less vulnerable.

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Fearmonger wrote:

This is definitely a good point that I hadn't considered. That said, I'm pretty sure socketing a Life Leech or LGoH gem would give you significantly larger life returns than just relying on physical leech from gear and passives, so it's not all bad.

Probably, considering you are only leeching for 40% of the damage you do (since 60% is converted to fire).....but I'm wondering if that trade-off is worth losing a support socket.....running Molten + Multi + WED + Conc. Effect + Fire Pen leaves you with only 1 socket open if you have a 6-link.....best options is either blood magic gem if you want to run auras or life leech if you stick with the keystone, and even then with AoF you will need life leech in your 5l, dropping either conc. effect or fire pen to get it.

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Nagisan wrote:

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Fearmonger wrote:

This is definitely a good point that I hadn't considered. That said, I'm pretty sure socketing a Life Leech or LGoH gem would give you significantly larger life returns than just relying on physical leech from gear and passives, so it's not all bad.

Probably, considering you are only leeching for 40% of the damage you do (since 60% is converted to fire).....but I'm wondering if that trade-off is worth losing a support socket.....running Molten + Multi + WED + Conc. Effect + Fire Pen leaves you with only 1 socket open if you have a 6-link.....best options is either blood magic gem if you want to run auras or life leech if you stick with the keystone, and even then with AoF you will need life leech in your 5l, dropping either conc. effect or fire pen to get it.

What about Droping Conc Effect? Anyone sold that this is a must Gem in this set up?

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shahmat1972 wrote:

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Nagisan wrote:

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Fearmonger wrote:

This is definitely a good point that I hadn't considered. That said, I'm pretty sure socketing a Life Leech or LGoH gem would give you significantly larger life returns than just relying on physical leech from gear and passives, so it's not all bad.

Probably, considering you are only leeching for 40% of the damage you do (since 60% is converted to fire).....but I'm wondering if that trade-off is worth losing a support socket.....running Molten + Multi + WED + Conc. Effect + Fire Pen leaves you with only 1 socket open if you have a 6-link.....best options is either blood magic gem if you want to run auras or life leech if you stick with the keystone, and even then with AoF you will need life leech in your 5l, dropping either conc. effect or fire pen to get it.

What about Droping Conc Effect? Anyone sold that this is a must Gem in this set up?

I don't like Conc Effect myself. Your single target is already insane, what you need is better AOE with Molten Strike. Definitely not worth taking IMO.

I was looking over the passive tree, and was wondering this. Since hatred will be used and that cold damage is there, would it not be useful to take Ice Bite which is on the path to Point Blank? It seems like that would be 30% more cold damage being applied for only spending a single passive point.

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shahmat1972 wrote:

What about Droping Conc Effect? Anyone sold that this is a must Gem in this set up?

Definitely a consideration.....I have not personally tested conc effect yet, but it seems the molten balls have very small AoE to begin with, I don't see conc effect making it much smaller (30% is 30%, but with as small as it is, it won't make a huge different IMO, but again I haven't tested it). 69% MORE damage is a hell of a multiplier, but as you said it might not be needed. I mean hell molten strike projectiles with point blank alone = 90% of tooltip dps....what kind of tooltip dps can molten strike reach (I was hitting like 6k on my dual striker with WoE and pretty mid-range gear and a lvl 1 molten in a 4 link)?

I'm considering changing by build to use molten + multi + WED + LL + fire pen + blood magic.....then running grace/hatred with avatar of fire (was previously running BM keystone and no auras without AoF). I know AoF will eat into Hatreds damage, but at 35% additional damage * 0.5 (AoF) = 17.5% additional damage * 2.29 (129% inc fire dmg) = 40% additional damage from hatred.....BEFORE the 59% MORE multiplier of WED. Basically Hatred, even with AoF, should add about 63.6% of my physical damage, as additional fire damage if my math is right.

So yeah, without conc effect I can run BM keystone in a 6l (or even 5l, over fire pen) and gain a huge boost to damage without shrinking the AoE size (and defense from grace).

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Dmillz wrote:

But with Avatar of Fire (which we determined is a must have for this) it is ALWAYS better.

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Dmillz wrote:

EDIT: Was too hasty on that. Hatred might still be worth using. Doing math...

I wouldn't say AoF is always better, the biggest drawback of AoF is definitely that you severely gimp the effectiveness of Hatred (it gets halved). If you're using Blood Magic keystone this is a non-issue since you wouldn't be running Hatred anyway so it becomes a very strong choice (I'm not sure I'd say its flat out better, it definitely has some cons regardless of if you're running Hatred).

If you're not running Blood Magic keystone, though, it gets pretty questionable. Like I laid out in one of my other posts, its quite possible to overcome the loss in damage of Hatred with the increased Weapon Elemental scaling, but since the gain becomes a lot more marginal the cons (fire resist mobs and life leech issues) become a lot more distinct.

Like I said, I probably would drop both AoF and Blood Magic keystones if I had a 6L, but I'm not set on this and if I did get to that point I would probably try both routes.

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Some other useful things I forgot to mention in my feedback post:

1. It may be worth mentioning the distinction between "Melee Physical" and "Damage with 2H Melee Weapons" nodes. As you know, the former is quite ineffective for a Molten Strike build as it doesn't scale the projectile damage at all, while the latter does because while the projectiles are not a melee attack, they are an attack that uses a 2H Melee Weapon.

2. While you can run 2 60% auras with just a high level Reduced Mana and no aura nodes, you can't run 1 60% and 2 40%s. Supporting the auras with a level 20 Reduced Mana causes the auras to reserve a total of 101% of your maximum mana (ergo, you can't do it). With the investment of just 1 passive point into an aura reservation reduction node this reservation becomes 95% of your maximum mana.

You might be thinking "Why would I want to be able to do that?": because it would allow you run reflect maps much more effectively. You could run Hatred, Purity of Fire, and either Vitality or a second purity (Purity of Lightning would be great for Piety or Dominus, for example).

So basically what I'm saying is that if you plan to run any ele reflect maps, when you spec out of Blood Magic you should put 2 points into the aura cluster nearby.