Duelist - [3.1] GLADIATOR 1H+Shield Max Block&Spell Block Tank + a BoR version - Forum

Been trying this out on my experiment build account. Tanky as HELL. but lacks the DPS to even kill normal mobs in 6ppl parties in mid-high tier maps. My questions is basically, how to improve our utility in party play? I am thinking: 1. we improve DPS while still maintaining survivability (slightly less is fine) 2. we become full tank and run warcrys for utility while tanking. (eg: pull all mobs and abyssal cry or w/e works best) either of these i think will benefit more than the solo set up we have. So far to improve dps im running abyssus but doesnt scale as well as a facebreaker maxblock build. any ideas?	Posted by bottomlane on Mar 26, 2016, 12:49:55 PM Quote this Post
Spoiler " Fell_Arms wrote: " Fell_Arms wrote: Here is my Varunastra interpretation of the skill tree for this set up with aegis aurora. Spoiler https://www.pathofexile.com/fullscreen-passive-skill-tree/AAAABAQCAQGRAecEhwSzBS0GiwhJCTMKJgz3Dc0S4RQgFE0U9hUgFewYkRm0GjgaPhpVHM4g4ySbJy8n7SgqK1Atgy3SL8wyTjboOtg9D0CgQXRFqUa3R35NRlBHVuhXDVqfXz9f2mEhYuxlTWWnZrZnm2jybNh07XYreTl673t0fLt-4n_jgIqCB4TZhO-GO4jtivCLT4-ZkFWRzpZsl3mezZ-CogCi6qcwqZWp-qyvrlCvbK-nsty5HbyfvTa-eL6nwGbAv8GCxPbFisqQ0TbSIdNv2sHcc90N4JXh7-Is5FHpRunV7w7wH_JB9038S_5U Note this is simply speculation, I'm currently working on my character for this set up. The good amount of leech/leech rate with a mana leech pair of gloves or ring gives this set up the appearance of flexibility with warlord's mark. It's probably not necessary to run, allowing you to run HoA + Determination or Hatred + HoA instead. It gives the appearance, but it's possible without warlord's mark and while using Varunastra that it will be too difficult to obtain and maintain free endurance charges with endurance charge on melee stun reckoning/endurance charge on kill. The idea though is that you'll have enough accuracy to be able to still consistently hit, allowing you to still crit (Might require accuracy on a ring or helmet). Though, if accuracy proves too little the easy switch is removing the crit claw/dagger/sword node and the axe/mace accuracy node and grabbing resolute technique The extra dex and int from nodes near the sword/dagger/claw cluster and command of steel should allow you to avoid taking +30 stat nodes (Since one of the current problems with the regular / not-varunastra weapon set up is the lack of non str nodes while pathing). I'm not sure how difficult resistance capping will be with this set up, but it shouldn't be much more difficult (Since losing 12 all res from shield equip) Main downside of this variation is the amount of life lost. Edit: Cleaned up tree a bit Long post: Okay just reposting this so I can share my findings. It's better to run resolute technique because you still have issues with obtaining high accuracy outside of 400+ from gear and ice golem (Which can be inconvenient to keep up for some people) (Though I'm basing this off of tooltip accuracy and not how often I feel like I'm hitting, since I'm attacking too quickly to be able to tell) Blood rage is a very solid thing to run with this set up with Varunastra (You get a lot more dex from this tree set up) and as long as you're wearing The Anvil and an item with mana leech, you have no issues with maintaining a high level of leech without Warlord's Mark (Mana on block from node + anvil gives you basically all you need with a mana leech item). The reason I'm taking Gratuitous Violence over the increased damage on block node is because of the overall amount of damage given to bleeding enemies on top of the explosion damage (It helps a lot for AoE clear with HoA overkill damage). You can still take Violent Retaliation, but I'm running conc low aoe EQ for higher single target (Still good aoe but not massive) damage. Weapon ele dmg lets you scale up to a really high level of tooltip dps when running Hatred + HoA, but make sure you still have determination slotted for whenever you need to swap. I'm going to list 2 gem set ups you can run with Varunastra, one's going to be a higher dps and fast clear set up and the other's going to be a more tanky set up. You basically follow Comrade's original gem set up with slight variations if going tanky; 4L: Determination - Hatred - Herald of Ash - Summon Chaos Golem 4L: Enduring Cry - Immortal Call - Vaal Molten Shell - Increased Duration 4L: Reckoning - Melee Physical Damage - Endurance Charge on Melee Stun - Increased AoE/Stun (Both work, AoE gives larger reach towards ranged enemies) 3L: Curse On Hit - Tempest Shield - Curse of choice (Vulnerability/Enfeeble best IMO if already have leech; Enfeeble gives most tank) 3L: Whirling Blades - Blood Magic - Fortify - Swap out either Immortal Call, Vaal Molten Shell, Increased Duration or Summon Chaos Golem for Blood Rage. Link set up for faster clear Varunastra: 4L: Determination - Hatred - Herald of Ash - Summon Chaos Golem/Enduring Cry 4L: Whirling Blades - Faster Attacks - Blood Magic - Fortify 4L: Reckoning - Melee Physical Damage - Endurance Charge on Melee Stun - Increased AoE/Stun (Both work, AoE Gives larger reach towards ranged enemies) 3L: Curse on Hit - Tempest Shield - Curse of choice (Vulnerability/Enfeeble best IMO if already have leech; Vulnerability gives fastest boss clearing) 3L: Immortal Call - Vaal Molten Shell - Summon Chaos Golem/End Cry/Increased Duration - Swap out either Immortal Call, Vaal Molten Shell, or Summon Chaos Golem/Increased Duration for Blood Rage (Not End Cry) - You can swap out something for Abyssal Cry too but it doesn't seem to help a considerable amount in terms of AoE clear. It's nice for getting rid of corpses since Det Dead hurts. You run whatever attack skill 6L you want, I prefer earthquake. My 6L EQ: Earthquake - Added Phys - Added Fire - Weapon Elemental Damage - Less Duration - Concentrated Effect Current dps with earthquake running hatred/hoa/3 frenzy charges: ~43200 (45300 if I haven't been hit recently) https://i.imgur.com/EukSD4y.png Note: Does not calc the more damage. Level 83, still working on upgrading jewelry for stats and still need levels for int nodes in Templar area. Now then, explanation of gem set up: - You run enduring cry for bosses/stun immunity maps, since you're not stunning as often on higher hp mobs with Reckoning while running Varunastra. Plus it's hard to keep the end charges up all the time if you're instantly killing trash mobs, so you take more damage from Blood Rage without it. - Blood Rage gives you flat % attack speed for whirling blades and general dps, also gives you frenzy charges which is 4% attack speed and 4% more damage per charge. (Note this attack speed dps doesn't scale accordingly with the more damage from EQ as the explosion isn't occurring every attack) - Summon Chaos Golem gives flat phys reduction, which lets you worry less about the damage you're taking from blood rage (It ignores armor). - Tempest Shield Curse on Hit: Self explanatory really, lets you use curses on harder to kill mobs for free (Still need to cast Tempest Shield) Flask set up: 2-3 Hp flasks, Granite, Basalt. Atziri's Promise if dropping an HP flask. Two 100 point tree set ups: Tankiest set up: Spoiler https://www.pathofexile.com/fullscreen-passive-skill-tree/AAAABAQCAQGRAecEhwSzBS0GiwhJCTMKJgz3Dc0S4RQgFE0U9hUgFewYkRm0GjgaPhpVG_ocziDjJJsl3ycvJ-0oKitQLYMt0i_MMk426DrYPQ9AoEF0RalGt0d-TUZQR1WpVuhXDVqfXz9f2mEhYuxlTWWnZrZnm2jyagFs2HKpdO12K3k5eu97dHy7fNl-4oCKggeE2YTvhjuI7Yrwi0-PmZBVkc6WbJd5l7SezZ_LogCi6qQZpzCplan6rK-tja5Qr2yvp7Lctiy5HbyfvTa-eL6nwGbAv8GCxPbFisqQz37RNtIh02_ZYdrB3Q3gleHv4izkUelG6dXvDvAf8kH3MvdN_Ev-VA== Max damage/clear set up: Spoiler https://www.pathofexile.com/fullscreen-passive-skill-tree/AAAABAQCAQGRAecEhwSzBS0GiwhJCTMKJgz3Dc0S4RQgFE0U9hUgFewYkRm0GjgaPhpVG_ocziDjJJsl3ycvJ-0oKitQLOktgy3SL8wyTjboOtg8BT0PQKBBdEMxRalGt0d-TUZQR1boVw1aGlqfXz9f2mEhYuxlTWWnZrZnm2jybNhyqXTtdit5OXrve3R8u3zZfuKAioIHhNmE74Y7hrOI7Yrwi0-PmZBVkc6WbJd5ns2iAKLqpBmnMKmVqfqsr65Qr2yvp7Lctiy5HbyfvTa-eL6nwGbAv8GCwzPE9sWKypDRNtIh02_awd0N4JXh7-Is5FHpRunV7w7vfPAf8kH3MvdN_Ev-VA== Also: Currently running a 264 dps Varunastra. Bloodrage eats your ES though not sure how good that is :P How do you run all 3 auras? :3 Would rapid decay be better than WED? Last edited by Kiszh on Mar 26, 2016, 3:56:33 PM	Posted by Kiszh on Mar 26, 2016, 3:53:20 PM Quote this Post
How viable would gratuitous violence be compared to violent retaliation in the Doryani's Catalyst version?	Posted by Tuoppeeh on Mar 26, 2016, 4:24:04 PM Quote this Post
" Tuoppeeh wrote: How viable would gratuitous violence be compared to violent retaliation in the Doryani's Catalyst version? also thinking about what to choose out of those. Originally I wanted to take the bleeding path but realized that 25% chance too late. Is it still a great node or just ok? At the moment (lvl 56), abyssal cry does a better job with "getting rid of corpses". Necros and retches are quite annoying imo, so I'd like some corpse explosion for both, damage and QoL. retaliation seems kinda unreliable... didn't try yet, but how many blocks do you have in 4 seconds? depending on mob and density... between 4 and 20? maybe more if facing tittybitches and other really fast opponents? Additional mechanics question: What happens, if I kill a monster with... 1) abyssal cry --> explode if killed for 8% life as chaos 2) gladiators bleed node --> explode if bleeding for 10% life as phys Is there a hidden order or do I get both? Dynamit, Architekturkritik, die man tatsächlich sieht! Farin Urlaub http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2nz5q9	Posted by Wraeklops on Mar 26, 2016, 4:56:30 PM Quote this Post
So hang on, let me clarify, at least on the varunastra version one of the reasons I take Gratuitous violence is because you don't need the movespeed from Violent Retaliation. I think they both have their merits; taking Violent Retaliation is good with leap slam for movespeed, and it allows you to not take block on a jewel or to get rid of one of the block nodes in favor of additional shield defence (Or if you get a + block Anvil, even more). Not to mention you don't take the bleed nodes if going this route, which frees up 3 points. Gratuitous violence gives you potential faster aoe clear though, which is good. It's not as consistent as Violent retaliation though. Also: Yes, you get both AoE explosions. Last edited by Fell_Arms on Mar 26, 2016, 6:18:43 PM	Posted by Fell_Arms on Mar 26, 2016, 6:04:14 PM Quote this Post
doryani is good for sunder build? Or a 300+ pdps mace would be better?	Posted by yodabwoy on Mar 26, 2016, 9:14:46 PM Quote this Post
" Kiszh wrote: Spoiler " Fell_Arms wrote: " Fell_Arms wrote: Here is my Varunastra interpretation of the skill tree for this set up with aegis aurora. Spoiler https://www.pathofexile.com/fullscreen-passive-skill-tree/AAAABAQCAQGRAecEhwSzBS0GiwhJCTMKJgz3Dc0S4RQgFE0U9hUgFewYkRm0GjgaPhpVHM4g4ySbJy8n7SgqK1Atgy3SL8wyTjboOtg9D0CgQXRFqUa3R35NRlBHVuhXDVqfXz9f2mEhYuxlTWWnZrZnm2jybNh07XYreTl673t0fLt-4n_jgIqCB4TZhO-GO4jtivCLT4-ZkFWRzpZsl3mezZ-CogCi6qcwqZWp-qyvrlCvbK-nsty5HbyfvTa-eL6nwGbAv8GCxPbFisqQ0TbSIdNv2sHcc90N4JXh7-Is5FHpRunV7w7wH_JB9038S_5U Note this is simply speculation, I'm currently working on my character for this set up. The good amount of leech/leech rate with a mana leech pair of gloves or ring gives this set up the appearance of flexibility with warlord's mark. It's probably not necessary to run, allowing you to run HoA + Determination or Hatred + HoA instead. It gives the appearance, but it's possible without warlord's mark and while using Varunastra that it will be too difficult to obtain and maintain free endurance charges with endurance charge on melee stun reckoning/endurance charge on kill. The idea though is that you'll have enough accuracy to be able to still consistently hit, allowing you to still crit (Might require accuracy on a ring or helmet). Though, if accuracy proves too little the easy switch is removing the crit claw/dagger/sword node and the axe/mace accuracy node and grabbing resolute technique The extra dex and int from nodes near the sword/dagger/claw cluster and command of steel should allow you to avoid taking +30 stat nodes (Since one of the current problems with the regular / not-varunastra weapon set up is the lack of non str nodes while pathing). I'm not sure how difficult resistance capping will be with this set up, but it shouldn't be much more difficult (Since losing 12 all res from shield equip) Main downside of this variation is the amount of life lost. Edit: Cleaned up tree a bit Long post: Okay just reposting this so I can share my findings. It's better to run resolute technique because you still have issues with obtaining high accuracy outside of 400+ from gear and ice golem (Which can be inconvenient to keep up for some people) (Though I'm basing this off of tooltip accuracy and not how often I feel like I'm hitting, since I'm attacking too quickly to be able to tell) Blood rage is a very solid thing to run with this set up with Varunastra (You get a lot more dex from this tree set up) and as long as you're wearing The Anvil and an item with mana leech, you have no issues with maintaining a high level of leech without Warlord's Mark (Mana on block from node + anvil gives you basically all you need with a mana leech item). The reason I'm taking Gratuitous Violence over the increased damage on block node is because of the overall amount of damage given to bleeding enemies on top of the explosion damage (It helps a lot for AoE clear with HoA overkill damage). You can still take Violent Retaliation, but I'm running conc low aoe EQ for higher single target (Still good aoe but not massive) damage. Weapon ele dmg lets you scale up to a really high level of tooltip dps when running Hatred + HoA, but make sure you still have determination slotted for whenever you need to swap. I'm going to list 2 gem set ups you can run with Varunastra, one's going to be a higher dps and fast clear set up and the other's going to be a more tanky set up. You basically follow Comrade's original gem set up with slight variations if going tanky; 4L: Determination - Hatred - Herald of Ash - Summon Chaos Golem 4L: Enduring Cry - Immortal Call - Vaal Molten Shell - Increased Duration 4L: Reckoning - Melee Physical Damage - Endurance Charge on Melee Stun - Increased AoE/Stun (Both work, AoE gives larger reach towards ranged enemies) 3L: Curse On Hit - Tempest Shield - Curse of choice (Vulnerability/Enfeeble best IMO if already have leech; Enfeeble gives most tank) 3L: Whirling Blades - Blood Magic - Fortify - Swap out either Immortal Call, Vaal Molten Shell, Increased Duration or Summon Chaos Golem for Blood Rage. Link set up for faster clear Varunastra: 4L: Determination - Hatred - Herald of Ash - Summon Chaos Golem/Enduring Cry 4L: Whirling Blades - Faster Attacks - Blood Magic - Fortify 4L: Reckoning - Melee Physical Damage - Endurance Charge on Melee Stun - Increased AoE/Stun (Both work, AoE Gives larger reach towards ranged enemies) 3L: Curse on Hit - Tempest Shield - Curse of choice (Vulnerability/Enfeeble best IMO if already have leech; Vulnerability gives fastest boss clearing) 3L: Immortal Call - Vaal Molten Shell - Summon Chaos Golem/End Cry/Increased Duration - Swap out either Immortal Call, Vaal Molten Shell, or Summon Chaos Golem/Increased Duration for Blood Rage (Not End Cry) - You can swap out something for Abyssal Cry too but it doesn't seem to help a considerable amount in terms of AoE clear. It's nice for getting rid of corpses since Det Dead hurts. You run whatever attack skill 6L you want, I prefer earthquake. My 6L EQ: Earthquake - Added Phys - Added Fire - Weapon Elemental Damage - Less Duration - Concentrated Effect Current dps with earthquake running hatred/hoa/3 frenzy charges: ~43200 (45300 if I haven't been hit recently) https://i.imgur.com/EukSD4y.png Note: Does not calc the more damage. Level 83, still working on upgrading jewelry for stats and still need levels for int nodes in Templar area. Now then, explanation of gem set up: - You run enduring cry for bosses/stun immunity maps, since you're not stunning as often on higher hp mobs with Reckoning while running Varunastra. Plus it's hard to keep the end charges up all the time if you're instantly killing trash mobs, so you take more damage from Blood Rage without it. - Blood Rage gives you flat % attack speed for whirling blades and general dps, also gives you frenzy charges which is 4% attack speed and 4% more damage per charge. (Note this attack speed dps doesn't scale accordingly with the more damage from EQ as the explosion isn't occurring every attack) - Summon Chaos Golem gives flat phys reduction, which lets you worry less about the damage you're taking from blood rage (It ignores armor). - Tempest Shield Curse on Hit: Self explanatory really, lets you use curses on harder to kill mobs for free (Still need to cast Tempest Shield) Flask set up: 2-3 Hp flasks, Granite, Basalt. Atziri's Promise if dropping an HP flask. Two 100 point tree set ups: Tankiest set up: Spoiler https://www.pathofexile.com/fullscreen-passive-skill-tree/AAAABAQCAQGRAecEhwSzBS0GiwhJCTMKJgz3Dc0S4RQgFE0U9hUgFewYkRm0GjgaPhpVG_ocziDjJJsl3ycvJ-0oKitQLYMt0i_MMk426DrYPQ9AoEF0RalGt0d-TUZQR1WpVuhXDVqfXz9f2mEhYuxlTWWnZrZnm2jyagFs2HKpdO12K3k5eu97dHy7fNl-4oCKggeE2YTvhjuI7Yrwi0-PmZBVkc6WbJd5l7SezZ_LogCi6qQZpzCplan6rK-tja5Qr2yvp7Lctiy5HbyfvTa-eL6nwGbAv8GCxPbFisqQz37RNtIh02_ZYdrB3Q3gleHv4izkUelG6dXvDvAf8kH3MvdN_Ev-VA== Max damage/clear set up: Spoiler https://www.pathofexile.com/fullscreen-passive-skill-tree/AAAABAQCAQGRAecEhwSzBS0GiwhJCTMKJgz3Dc0S4RQgFE0U9hUgFewYkRm0GjgaPhpVG_ocziDjJJsl3ycvJ-0oKitQLOktgy3SL8wyTjboOtg8BT0PQKBBdEMxRalGt0d-TUZQR1boVw1aGlqfXz9f2mEhYuxlTWWnZrZnm2jybNhyqXTtdit5OXrve3R8u3zZfuKAioIHhNmE74Y7hrOI7Yrwi0-PmZBVkc6WbJd5ns2iAKLqpBmnMKmVqfqsr65Qr2yvp7Lctiy5HbyfvTa-eL6nwGbAv8GCwzPE9sWKypDRNtIh02_awd0N4JXh7-Is5FHpRunV7w7vfPAf8kH3MvdN_Ev-VA== Also: Currently running a 264 dps Varunastra. Bloodrage eats your ES though not sure how good that is :P How do you run all 3 auras? :3 Would rapid decay be better than WED? Bloodrage is fine because you get your energy shield every time you block. As long as you're not being 1 shot from max hp (You really shouldn't be with this build) you should be able to maintain most of your ES while fighting enemies (You get your energy shield for tanking back on block). We get a ton of flat, non armor, physical reduction anyways, so the blood rage life drain isn't that noticeable with the small amount of regen we also get. Having a form of life leech helps too. I'm running a hybrid chest with 1.4k armor and 440 es, so I think it's fair to say that this is probably excessive with blood rage since you lose a lot of life and often sit on 0 ES until you enter a pack, but I don't think it really matters. Spoiler That said, it's still fine because I can sit on high es during most dangerous enemy encounters anyways (Unless they only attack once every 1-2 seconds and are alone). It's just more of an issue of having less life. Nobody should be using a hybrid ES chest without at least ~1.4k armor though; as Comrade has stated, the only hybrid chests you should ever consider running are going to be really expensive (And the ones that you'd ideally run, mirror worthy) Got this one lined up if I ever manage to 6L (Though it might be more worthwhile to just buy a 2k armor 90+ life one with int instead, for stated reasons) Spoiler You wouldn't run rapid decay on Earthquake because it's just 15% less duration. That's not that amazing, and weapon ele damage scales as more, rather than additional, so it's multiplicative. If you want increased AoE you can run increased AoE instead of weapon ele damage. IMO you don't want to run phys to lightning because then it's possible you could run into issues with ele reflect maps (That said, double reflect is still pretty easy for this build as long as you're aware of what you don't block). The only time I've killed myself on reflect so far was in a double reflect dry peninsula where I was running AoE instead of weapon ele damage, before I took Resolute Technique. I went from full hp to instant death on the boss (Allies can't die), but had been doing well and not really taking damage up until it was ~1/5 hp. I'm pretty sure what happened is I crit in an aoe on all the mobs and failed to block almost all of the reflect damage. The only way you can run all 3 auras at once is by using an Essence Worm ring, but you'd only do that with a soul taker. Also puts a lot more stress on you for getting stats from equipment. Last edited by Fell_Arms on Mar 27, 2016, 1:22:46 AM	Posted by Fell_Arms on Mar 27, 2016, 1:18:05 AM Quote this Post
So I'm pretty new to the game and just started this build today and was looking over the tree, and was wondering from my limited knowledge of the game, is there any point at all to go into the Block Recovery nodes if we take Unwavering Stance? Sorry if this has been asked already.	Posted by Murderlizer on Mar 27, 2016, 1:38:18 AM Quote this Post
" Murderlizer wrote: So I'm pretty new to the game and just started this build today and was looking over the tree, and was wondering from my limited knowledge of the game, is there any point at all to go into the Block Recovery nodes if we take Unwavering Stance? Sorry if this has been asked already. No, while running unwavering stance block recovery offers no use. That's why if you overcap block with ascendancy tree or a block implicit The Anvil you should take out the nodes where you can for shield defences. a 2 block Anvil lets you remove 1 point for 40% defences from shields, a 3 block additionally allows you to avoid using a block jewel, and a 4 block allows you to take out 2 of the 2 block nodes instead and offers you an additional skill point for the tree. Basically, when you block, if the attack you blocked would've stunned, you play a blocking animation. Block recovery makes that animation faster; since we can't be stunned, we never see it, so it's useless. Spoiler Last edited by Fell_Arms on Mar 27, 2016, 1:57:11 AM	Posted by Fell_Arms on Mar 27, 2016, 1:45:53 AM Quote this Post
BoR-tree seems to be broken. Could you fix it, please? Sorry my bad english, I'm not the native speaker. Please treat with understanding.	Posted by Fermalion on Mar 27, 2016, 4:13:38 AM Quote this Post