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I can't help but side with the OP. It gets tiresome any time their is hardcore aspects to new games a few want them removed because it isn't fair. Well I'm glad this game isn't 100% fair, it makes the game more exciting. Some of the other posters are right. If you don't like it, go play Diablo 3. The developers are constantly concerned about "fairness" there. Nerfing Inferno, making items BoA, increasing the loot chances, etc.
You guys demanding change are going to set the same precedent whining set in Diablo 3. I hope you are prepared to reap what you sow if the devs listen to you.
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Posted byKadderlyon Jan 30, 2013, 12:49:55 PM
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The insinuation is due to the fact that people expect to have a core system completely changed because a small vocal minority don't like it.
Lengthening the loot timer or adding options for the length, the two most popular suggestions, are hardly "having a core system completely changed". That's just hyperbole to avoid having a real discussion.
You assert that it's a "small vocal minority" who don't like FFA loot. In my experience, it's the exact opposite. A small, vocal minority like you will troll and insult anyone who brings up tthe topic. It's a very common complaint among new players in my experience.
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There's not any reason at all why people can't watch their drops and get their own loot, except inattention or laziness. Its your job to make sure you get your drops in a pub, not GGG's
It's not a job. It's a computer game. Why can we not have a rational conversation about whether that game would be more fun with a slight tweak to one group play mechanic, without you stringing together straw mans and insults?
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If you join a public party you better be watching like a hawk or your stuff WILL get picked up.
Right. Some of us think that is not a fun dynamic. I already told you I don't want to rehash this tired debate, but you felt the need to lay out exactly the kind of insulting arguments I was just complaining about, so I feel compelled to reply.
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The backlash is because the FFA system fits perfectly with the cut throat world they've created
Translation: I assert that my position is obviously the only correct view on the subject and that anyone who disagrees is stupid or doesn't understand the game as well.
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and the many fans of this style are sick to death of people demanding changes to perfectly functional systems because they lost out on something one way or another.
Translation: it doesn't bother me, so I'm gonna be an asshole to anyone it does bother. If you disagree with me, you are not a "real" fan of the genre.
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Choose your party carefully and watch your drops.
Yeah, no shit. That's what we all do now. Some of us think the game would be more fun if we didn't have to. Your solution is basically "don't use public groups", which kind of proves the point that public groups are not working very well. This is a beta, and it would be nice if we could have a polite conversation about tweaking things like this without being subjected to this kind of hostility.
Last edited by solistus on Jan 30, 2013, 12:51:26 PM
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Posted bysolistuson Jan 30, 2013, 12:50:07 PM
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How do you know people who dislike FFA are a minority?
Because in any game community the vast majority of people don't join the forums to complain. They play the game as is. This is no exception
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There's no reason instanced loot cannot be an option. We can have our cake and you can eat it too!
Except for re-allocating GGG's already strained resources away from something valuable to make a large data-related change that is being requested for purely stylistic reasons
As far as FFA loot not fitting with the style of the game? I don't know what to say to that except that its a nice middle ground between cut-throat and carebear.
The loot system works great. It requires you to pay attention. Getting shinies into your stash isn't GGG's responsibility.
Its YOUR responsibility, exile!
"Wait, what did I just drink?" - Socrates
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Posted bymrmathon Jan 30, 2013, 12:50:41 PM
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I'm really sick of these ad hom insinuations that anyone who dislikes FFA loot is "not a hardcore gamer" or "a D3 noob". I've been here for months, I'm a silver supporter, and I dislike FFA loot. I'm not going to rehash the same arguments I've made for the past 6 months or so on yet another thread, especially one that starts off by telling me that I'm not a real gamer because I disagree with the OP. Kindly get off your high horse and stop turning debates over game mechanics into a litmus test for who is and is not a True Scotsman among PoE fans. You don't speak for all CB supporters, and it insults those of us who disagree with you to frame this as supporters versus newcomers.
Things change. The game is in beta. The fact that we donated when things worked a certain way does not mean it would be unfair to us if things changed. TONS of shit has changed since I started playing. That's the point of a beta.
You seem slightly mad, but thanks to your incredibaly helpful ranting, I now see the light!
Oh wait...I never said all the supporters did I? No, actually I said
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You have a lot of people who have donated to this game because they like it. Many donated because of the FFA loot system.
So, I never said I spoke for everyone. So now that is out of the way, what is left... OH pitting supporters against non-supporters. This is a really really bad arguement and it was a complete mis interpretation of what I was saying. People still support it today, regardless of not getting the fancy label. So how would I know who the supporters are? How do I know that Jimbo that has nothing on his forum name, actually paid a grand to make a new item?
So, yea, never said that at all. You assumed, and that is bad.
And lastly, the true scottishman! Yea, so all I did was say that the game had a hardcore/cut-throat loot system. And seeing as everyone is whining about it, kinda proves the point. If you want to feel big I will call you hardcore, because apparently this is important to some.
Please, get off your donkey and get on the same page.
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Posted byTandimoniumon Jan 30, 2013, 12:51:35 PM
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The insinuation is due to the fact that people expect to have a core system completely changed because a small vocal minority don't like it.
How do you know people who dislike FFA are a minority?
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There's not any reason at all why people can't watch their drops and get their own loot, except inattention or laziness. Its your job to make sure you get your drops in a pub, not GGG's
There's no reason instanced loot cannot be an option. We can have our cake and you can eat it too!
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The backlash is because the FFA system fits perfectly with the cut throat world they've created and the many fans of this style are sick to death of people demanding changes to perfectly functional systems because they lost out on something one way or another.
I'd like to repeat what SgtScrub said:
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It doesn't fit with the theme of the game.
if you're:
a) a tightly knit group of exiles trying to survive:
Then what is the point of everyone hoarding the loot for themselves if the chances of group survival would go up through smart division of loot?
b) a group barely held together by spit, suppressed paranoia and prayer:
Then why am I not butchering others for loot?
Yes, that tightly knit group. That is why in A2 there are 3 different tribes trying to kill each other, and a city that doesn't trust you. You assume everyone is friendly when infact, it is more that you band together to get something done, but skip the whole tea and biscuits afterwards.
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Posted byTandimoniumon Jan 30, 2013, 12:54:04 PM
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I can't help but side with the OP. It gets tiresome any time their is hardcore aspects to new games a few want them removed because it isn't fair. Well I'm glad this game isn't 100% fair, it makes the game more exciting. Some of the other posters are right. If you don't like it, go play Diablo 3. The developers are constantly concerned about "fairness" there. Nerfing Inferno, making items BoA, increasing the loot chances, etc.
You guys demanding change are going to set the same precedent whining set in Diablo 3. I hope you are prepared to reap what you sow if the devs listen to you.
I don't see how developing a system that makes the player WANT to group instead of NOT wanting to group makes all those terrible Diablo 3 things occur.
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Posted byZenn3kon Jan 30, 2013, 12:55:55 PM
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Mandatory FFA loot is a poor design choice.
Most players don't like FFA loot, and will avoid grouping with strangers because of it. A game like this requires teamplay and grouping for a sustained playerbase.
So, GGG's shooting themselves in the foot.
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Posted byEasymodeXon Jan 30, 2013, 12:55:59 PM
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This is a fun game. I don't mind the FFA loot system, or integrating another loot system as well. Maybe, two types of part groups, 1 where the FFA loot system is implemented and has the same drop rate as it currently has per player, and another, where a friendlier loot system is implemented and it have MAYBE 1/20 to 1/30th of a chance of dropping the same rare drop as in the FFA version. It could basically be an option in the party setup that could be decided upon, and people could choose which version they would prefer. Honestly, I think, in the end, more would decide on the FFA version. But thats me
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Posted bySobeDragonon Jan 30, 2013, 12:56:34 PM
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I can't help but side with the OP. It gets tiresome any time their is hardcore aspects to new games a few want them removed because it isn't fair. Well I'm glad this game isn't 100% fair, it makes the game more exciting. Some of the other posters are right. If you don't like it, go play Diablo 3. The developers are constantly concerned about "fairness" there. Nerfing Inferno, making items BoA, increasing the loot chances, etc.
You guys demanding change are going to set the same precedent whining set in Diablo 3. I hope you are prepared to reap what you sow if the devs listen to you.
I don't see how developing a system that makes the player WANT to group instead of NOT wanting to group makes all those terrible Diablo 3 things occur.
Because complaining about fundamentals of a game and seeing results breeds more complaining of the fundamentals of a game. Complain about the FFA loot system now and GGG listens? Next people will want uniques to drop more frequently. In the name of fairness of course.
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Posted byKadderlyon Jan 30, 2013, 12:58:07 PM
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*Puts on fire resist gear*
No. Stahp. There is no need for the system to change.
You cannot join a game that is designed a specific way, with people who enjoy the game because of it being that way, and say it has to change. This is NOT D3 or D2, it is PoE and it has a Semi-FFA loot system.
There are some tweaking such as stopping people from ice walling loot, but it absolutely does not need a complete overhaul of the loot system.
If you come here naming off other games that you like better for their loot system, then go play them. PoE is one of the last games with a FFA based loot and it needs to remain that way for those of us who enjoy a little competition.
You have a lot of people who have donated to this game because they like it. Many donated because of the FFA loot system. How is it fair for them to donate to a cause such as this game and have a group of people come in and demand that the game they love be fundamentally changed to suit your wants?
In PoE gear is not easy to come by. Getting a good item in this game is like a badge of honor that you can show off and not have 40k people saying they have the same thing. Games nowadays are too easy with loot being handed to you like candy. Everyone gets the same things and nothing is "rare" anymore.
I have seen a lot of complaints on this with people saying they lost their loot to a "Ninja". First off, PoE does not have that as a playable class, and secondly, it was not "Your" loot. You were just given a nice bonus to your chances of getting it, and failed for one excuse or another. What you are forgetting is that maybe you missed out on that Unique lvl 15 item, you may get to snatch a bad ass high lvl Unique from someone else later on. The playing field is fair, everyone can take anything.
"But, I am ranged and cannot get to my stuff! QQ!"
In my experience so far, it is the melee getting screwed on loot. The melee are generally having to constantly hit to stay alive, and when gear drops, they either have to risk dying because they stopped getting leech from attacking, or finish the guy off and get the loot. This is where the ranged nicely come in and help the poor chap out while he is unable to disengage from battle to get his loot.
"But, the melee are going ahead of me and killing things outside my view!"
Keep up.
"But, I lag!"
Sorry. I get the shits from pizza. Life sucks some times.
So, all of the excuses are BS. PoE does not want to spoon feed you gear. If you want to garuntee your gear drops are yours, play solo. If you want to play with a random group of asshats, then expect to not get all "your" loot.
The loot system needs to have some things fixed to stop exploits, but this game needs to keep its original loot system. This is why many people donated, to finally have that cut-throat game that has been missing for years.
well said bro. Thx.
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Posted byPartypapston Jan 30, 2013, 12:59:12 PM
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