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Russell wrote:
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Xendran wrote:
You can either do 25% royalties past $50,000 with the basic license, or you can license the entire UE3 with no royalties + access to source code for a personalized amount.
A license for Unreal Engine 5 years ago was around 1.5-2 million. If you want to use the current unreal 3 engine now its around 500k I believe. Not sure where you got 2500$ from. Even Gamebryo was 750k. Big triple A engines arnt cheap.
Unitys starting to get pretty good however! Though all iv been seeing from unity is slenderman games.
I'm not trying to bash you but can you reconsider the move to a more polished engine down the line as soon as its feasible? It would address the optimization, multithreading, netcode and so much more all in one shot. In the end it may be a massive price tag and a lot of work to change over to that engine but think about it this way...
What is the cost vs benefit comparison of spending the last two years of working on the current engine versus just changing over to something like the cry engine? What will it be like after two more years of trying to work with the current engine? How long will this current engine last and what can be done when it reaches it's limit? What happens if a major issue is found in the engine that pretty much requires a core rewrite to fix? How are you going to compete with games that come out in 2 or 4 years?
Also have you ever considered the move to android or apple as a touch screen based app? I would seriously pay some bank to play this on my tablet. And it uses the unity engine, which could make porting to both PC and android the same move in the longer term.
Last edited by Jiero#2499 on Mar 19, 2014, 3:21:02 PM
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Posted byJiero#2499on Mar 19, 2014, 3:11:27 PM
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Russell wrote:
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Xendran wrote:
You can either do 25% royalties past $50,000 with the basic license, or you can license the entire UE3 with no royalties + access to source code for a personalized amount.
A license for Unreal Engine 5 years ago was around 1.5-2 million. If you want to use the current unreal 3 engine now its around 500k I believe. Not sure where you got 2500$ from. Even Gamebryo was 750k. Big triple A engines arnt cheap.
Unitys starting to get pretty good however! Though all iv been seeing from unity is slenderman games.
Like elvy, I saw this UE4 release and came running:
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We’re working to build a company that succeeds when UE4 developers succeed. Anyone can ship a commercial product with UE4 by paying 5% of gross revenue resulting from sales to users. If your game makes $1,000,000, then we make $50,000. We realize that’s a lot to ask, and that it would be a crazy proposition unless UE4 enables you to build way better games way more productively than otherwise!
Sounds like it would be potentially a big savings.
It's probably not a useful deal for this game (since it's way too late in the dev cycle to start all over again), but worth keeping in mind for the future.
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Posted bypneuma#0134on Mar 19, 2014, 3:22:01 PMAlpha Member
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Russell wrote:
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Xendran wrote:
You can either do 25% royalties past $50,000 with the basic license, or you can license the entire UE3 with no royalties + access to source code for a personalized amount.
A license for Unreal Engine 5 years ago was around 1.5-2 million. If you want to use the current unreal 3 engine now its around 500k I believe. Not sure where you got 2500$ from. Even Gamebryo was 750k. Big triple A engines arnt cheap.
Unitys starting to get pretty good however! Though all iv been seeing from unity is slenderman games.
The $2500 is for a different thing related to the dev kit for actually making the game (since you weren't selling PoE or things related to PoE during the early dev days).
You're correct in regards to it being usually 300-600k now for a full license to sell royalty free.
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Posted byXendran#1127on Mar 19, 2014, 3:28:37 PM
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Id probably buy a new supporter pack if it came out tomorrow IF ggg announced the removal of temporal chains and the fracturing mod from maps .
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Posted bySaltychipmunk#1430on Mar 19, 2014, 3:30:08 PM
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Arrowneous wrote:
Nice idea in theory but damn near impossible to do at this late stage. You see GGG decided at the beginning with the 4 persons who founded the company that there was no free or affordable game engine for their arpg so they created their own from scratch. Their decision back then is now coming back to bite them and the result is what we see today in PoE, frequent desyncs, rubber-banding in a feeble attempt to keep the server and client on the same page (simulations wise), animation stuttering from too many effects trying to work simultaneously, and many other graphics glitches and anomalies. This was discussed in a recent thread ( http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/835719) and Russell of GGG posted that if a move to another graphics game engine such as the Unreal Engine was contemplated it would probably take 3+ years to convert over to it. So even if GGG did a Crowdfunding to raise the financial capital necessary to convert to a better engine the physical time requirements for their dev team would be prohibitive. So GGG is stuck between a rock and a hard place with their early choice to make their own arpg game engine and all who play PoE are made to suffer.
In the midst of this entire thread, this is the voice that renders the entire thing completely moot. As far as I can tell from just a few minutes of research, it's all true.
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Posted byGemdraco#2335on Mar 19, 2014, 3:57:46 PM
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I experienced a Piety crash earlier today.
I was not using any new skill gems or gear.
I am losing faith.
Please, quality over quantity.
The core player experience deserves the utmost attention.
New content is just icing on the cake.
You can't improve a mediocre cake by adding more icing. (Not implying PoE is a mediocre cake)
Please, do not burry the cake in icing, then proceed to fix problems with the icing.
The foundation is critical.
TY to those who called me out on my BS on these forums. There is no benefit to being so selfish as to fail to acknowledge others' differing beliefs of what "should be" or believe your own opinions so supreme as to be factual and thus dismiss others' opinions as being somehow a lie or delusional. Last edited by Perfect_Black#6704 on Mar 21, 2014, 3:37:56 AM
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Posted byPerfect_Black#6704on Mar 19, 2014, 4:04:49 PM
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Gemdraco wrote:
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Arrowneous wrote:
Nice idea in theory but damn near impossible to do at this late stage. You see GGG decided at the beginning with the 4 persons who founded the company that there was no free or affordable game engine for their arpg so they created their own from scratch. Their decision back then is now coming back to bite them and the result is what we see today in PoE, frequent desyncs, rubber-banding in a feeble attempt to keep the server and client on the same page (simulations wise), animation stuttering from too many effects trying to work simultaneously, and many other graphics glitches and anomalies. This was discussed in a recent thread ( http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/835719) and Russell of GGG posted that if a move to another graphics game engine such as the Unreal Engine was contemplated it would probably take 3+ years to convert over to it. So even if GGG did a Crowdfunding to raise the financial capital necessary to convert to a better engine the physical time requirements for their dev team would be prohibitive. So GGG is stuck between a rock and a hard place with their early choice to make their own arpg game engine and all who play PoE are made to suffer.
In the midst of this entire thread, this is the voice that renders the entire thing completely moot. As far as I can tell from just a few minutes of research, it's all true.
Speaking as a game dev who has attempted to work with an original engine, it's 142% true.
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Posted byXendran#1127on Mar 19, 2014, 4:19:25 PM
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Xendran wrote:
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Gemdraco wrote:
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Arrowneous wrote:
Nice idea in theory but damn near impossible to do at this late stage. You see GGG decided at the beginning with the 4 persons who founded the company that there was no free or affordable game engine for their arpg so they created their own from scratch. Their decision back then is now coming back to bite them and the result is what we see today in PoE, frequent desyncs, rubber-banding in a feeble attempt to keep the server and client on the same page (simulations wise), animation stuttering from too many effects trying to work simultaneously, and many other graphics glitches and anomalies. This was discussed in a recent thread ( http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/835719) and Russell of GGG posted that if a move to another graphics game engine such as the Unreal Engine was contemplated it would probably take 3+ years to convert over to it. So even if GGG did a Crowdfunding to raise the financial capital necessary to convert to a better engine the physical time requirements for their dev team would be prohibitive. So GGG is stuck between a rock and a hard place with their early choice to make their own arpg game engine and all who play PoE are made to suffer.
In the midst of this entire thread, this is the voice that renders the entire thing completely moot. As far as I can tell from just a few minutes of research, it's all true.
Speaking as a game dev who has attempted to work with an original engine, it's 142% true.
Agreed...
Its the very foundation of why post industrial society has worked so well and expanded our ability to create things like computers, space travel and everything else. Working upon and expanding from the base work that others have done has always and will always be the preferred and most beneficial method to doing work... inventing the wheel from scratch on everything is just asking for failure...
Last edited by Jiero#2499 on Mar 19, 2014, 4:25:54 PM
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Posted byJiero#2499on Mar 19, 2014, 4:24:09 PM
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It's absolutely true that it's less than ideal to have a custom engine. I mean, they presumably did not rewrite their programming language, nor the libraries that they do use, but engines are big and expensive pieces of software. It's crazy to suggest that building on top of someone else's engine be a requirement.
After many years of refinement, GGG may even be left with an engine good enough that they could sell it to other game makers.
The part where Arrowneous' post went off the rails is when it claimed that the custom engine causes suffering, right at the end of the post. If GGG couldn't afford a better engine when they were first starting, then they may never have made this game at all. I'm positive that having no game is worse than having a game that isn't as perfect as it could be.
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Posted bypneuma#0134on Mar 19, 2014, 4:30:28 PMAlpha Member
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This raises something interesting actually...
If GGG had gone with the substantially cheaper license for UE3, but ended up losing 25% of their profit in royalties, profit which is used to help fund the creation of additional content, do you think path of exile would be in a better or worse place today than it currently is?
It's a bit of a trade off for initial stability vs total content.
Last edited by Xendran#1127 on Mar 19, 2014, 4:42:13 PM
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Posted byXendran#1127on Mar 19, 2014, 4:41:43 PM
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