This game and noobtraps

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Sinnesteuer wrote:

Spoiler

-Tangentially: Do you post from a smart phone? Is your Shift key broken? Do you not know proper capitalization in English? Personal pet peeve, not intended as an attack, would prefer to see people not butcher the language when typing is so easy to do.

I have large issues communicating thoughts using a keyboard. It is most certainly not my strong point. The problem is known to me.

As for your definition and my definition. I believe there is a clear separation between the two.

Learning experiences implies that the set back was not all that considerable.
Where as a noob trap implies a set back that is either impossible or exceptionally difficult to recover from.

In regards to the bandit quest. It would be a learning experience if the respec was reasonable.
But 20 regrets is not an easy sum to acquire through just regular game-play.

I wont argue on if 20 regrets is worthy of being a trap or not as that is up to opinion. Imo dropping what amounts to an exalted orb for a respec is largely an unusable method for most casual players.l

"

Saltychipmunk wrote:

"

Sinnesteuer wrote:

Spoiler

-Tangentially: Do you post from a smart phone? Is your Shift key broken? Do you not know proper capitalization in English? Personal pet peeve, not intended as an attack, would prefer to see people not butcher the language when typing is so easy to do.

I have large issues communicating thoughts using a keyboard. It is most certainly not my strong point. The problem is known to me.

As for your definition and my definition. I believe there is a clear separation between the two.

Learning experiences implies that the set back was not all that considerable.
Where as a noob trap implies a set back that is either impossible or exceptionally difficult to recover from.

In regards to the bandit quest. It would be a learning experience if the respec was reasonable.
But 20 regrets is not an easy sum to acquire through just regular game-play.

I wont argue on if 20 regrets is worthy of being a trap or not as that is up to opinion. Imo dropping what amounts to an exalted orb for a respec is largely an unusable method for most casual players.l

The player that chooses to respec a character rather than reroll the character in the situation you describe is, honestly, not making the "optimal" choice to "correct" the error.

Learning that rerolling is painless (albeit an investment of some time) is another lesson the design teaches.

Showing my age here: "We can rebuild him. Stronger, faster, better."

True, to a player who has played perhaps 1000 hours, a re-roll would be hands down the best avenue.

But we have to tackle this while also keeping in mind the view point of said newbs. Forget 1000 or 100s of hours. A noob could make this mistake as early as 5 hours into the game and more often than not they wont truly feel the weight of their mistake until much later.
And it is at that point that a simple reroll would be just painful.

Thinking about it , at this point in time we cant really say mana is a noob trap by simple fact that word of mouth has spread the word of its fail around the world a million times over by now.

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Saltychipmunk wrote:

True, to a player who has played perhaps 1000 hours, a re-roll would be hands down the best avenue.

But we have to tackle this while also keeping in mind the view point of said newbs. Forget 1000 or 100s of hours. A noob could make this mistake as early as 5 hours into the game and more often than not they wont truly feel the weight of their mistake until much later.
And it is at that point that a simple reroll would be just painful.

Thinking about it , at this point in time we cant really say mana is a noob trap by simple fact that word of mouth has spread the word of its fail around the world a million times over by now.

Actually, most players of the "RPG" genre should, through experience, understand that unless the game offers full repecs, at a reasonable "cost", then rerolling will ALWAYS be the better option.

Review Jojas' post regarding "paternalism" to more fully understand why "protecting noobs" is, ultimately, not in the best interest of the game or the player.

I admire your continued attempts to support the erroneous claims made by the OP, but he was making a mountain out of an anthill. I am not the only posted in this thread to point this out, just likely the one with the most free time away from the game to be able to post on it.

I will agree it is not a mountain.
And I have already admitted that the mana example is at this point perhaps not the best example.

All that I am saying is that It depends on scale .

To you , To me . 20 regrets , re rolling a character pre level 70+. trivial. I get that
But having your entire build turned on its head due to a sudden change in content be it in difficulty or some other measurable mechanic when there was no in game signals eluding to this coming change.

That is a trap.


Even in games famous for punishing difficulty and spikes in difficulty ( the souls series)
always left hints or subtle clues of the approaching changes. All one had to do was look from them.

But there are some cases in this game where the clues are just not there. You would need to interact with players who have already experienced the content to learn of it.

And in the process spoil the game for yourself.