Energy Shield passives

Maybe a new Keystone that takes away Evasion but gives you armor and/or elemental resist based on your maximum ES.

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grunternz wrote:

Why not just have a new node or group of nodes that give %ES and %Armour (similar to Body and Soul), with a new Keystone at the end of this progression that gives you Armour equal to some % of your total ES. This would give more value to %ES passives currently and would help with the mitigation issue people are discussing in this thread.

But then we get blue health again. It has to be something unique for it mechanics wise. The only interesting idea I seen so far is to add more recharge nodes so you can get down to 2 sec recharge if you spec for it. Then you could go in and out of combat for regen. It might not work but its different than health atleast.

Or maybee change something fundamental with how es works? A chance for projectiles to miss? Reflected projectiles? Just something that makes it unique and interesting.

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HollowedOnes wrote:

Maybe a new Keystone that takes away Evasion but gives you armor and/or elemental resist based on your maximum ES.

Not sure, its to much made just to make CI/ES work. I don't think a new keystone is the solution for this.

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Berjiz wrote:

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grunternz wrote:

Why not just have a new node or group of nodes that give %ES and %Armour (similar to Body and Soul), with a new Keystone at the end of this progression that gives you Armour equal to some % of your total ES. This would give more value to %ES passives currently and would help with the mitigation issue people are discussing in this thread.

But then we get blue health again. It has to be something unique for it mechanics wise. The only interesting idea I seen so far is to add more recharge nodes so you can get down to 2 sec recharge if you spec for it. Then you could go in and out of combat for regen. It might not work but its different than health atleast.

I am not referring to CI as you were in your previous statement about CI being "blue health". I am talking in general, I think some arrangement of passives as mentioned in my previous post should be introduced to address the damage mitigation issue ES characters currently have.

In fact, case and point for example the arrangement I mentioned would be very strong for hybrid HP/ES builds, not just CI builds.

I do agree that ES needs a boost, but I can see why it would be hard to balance it correctly. The 50% multiplacative ES boost that CI previously gave was obviously a bit much, but I really don't see why they couldn't just change it to 50% additive instead.

Then again, the 'Blue Health' issue is a legitimately interesting problem. A keystone to give a boost to armour based on ES is certainly interesting, and would be quite fitting in terms of theme, in my eyes. Energy Barrier, Energy Shell, Eldritch Armour, or some such other name. The only issue is balancing the figures. In my eyes, a 20% armour rating (As in, if the user was wearing armour, their stats screen would say 20%) would be completely acceptable, given the drawbacks CI comes with compared to say, RT, IR, AD or IG, each of which have minor drawbacks, or none at all. A marauder of the same level would have 60% or so, as well as a huge HP pool and HP regen, making the 20% seem not that unbalanced at all in comparison.

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Gearheart wrote:

I do agree that ES needs a boost, but I can see why it would be hard to balance it correctly. The 50% multiplacative ES boost that CI previously gave was obviously a bit much, but I really don't see why they couldn't just change it to 50% additive instead.

Then again, the 'Blue Health' issue is a legitimately interesting problem. A keystone to give a boost to armour based on ES is certainly interesting, and would be quite fitting in terms of theme, in my eyes. Energy Barrier, Energy Shell, Eldritch Armour, or some such other name. The only issue is balancing the figures. In my eyes, a 20% armour rating (As in, if the user was wearing armour, their stats screen would say 20%) would be completely acceptable, given the drawbacks CI comes with compared to say, RT, IR, AD or IG, each of which have minor drawbacks, or none at all. A marauder of the same level would have 60% or so, as well as a huge HP pool and HP regen, making the 20% seem not that unbalanced at all in comparison.

Yeah but the illusion that energy shield was overpowered in the first place is what's driving this conversation. Mathematically it's not, numerically it just had fancy high numbers and people who don't tank, or haven't played hardcore raiding MMOs don't realize your straight up HP value is not what it seems.



Even if you had 10k ES and were running around going "lol you cant hit me" you were still weaker than a player with a properly built evasion or armor tank build. Where as you had 10k Effective HP simply sitting in your health pool, they had 6.5k total HP and 75%-90% armor or Evasion, which means they had an actual effective HP pool of anywhere from 15k to 18k ACTUAL HEALTH against physical attacks with just the armor stats alone. Factor in the base 10% or so evasion chance from leveling and a good-ol fashioned 40%+ Block chance and you're just screaming on the floor in rage as you realize a really good tank could have an EFFECTIVE HP POOL of 20k or more, usually lots more. And they could use potions, and they had 3-4% health regen/sec, and they didn't have to spend 20 points getting health regen, and and and.


ES Tanks were good in one area, and that was tanking elemental damage. Since ES and normal tanks were on a relatively fair playing field for elemental resists (+Chaos immunity), Energy shield tanks were ending up with 50% to 100% more effective health pool against elemental attacks with the 10k ES pool in comparison to the 5-6k hp pool.

But seeing as tanks could still use potions, and had hp regen, and some of the crazier ones had that evasion talent to dodge spells. It was more or less an even playing field on the tank side of things.

So i don't want anyone to pretend having 100% bonus energy shield from chaos inoculation was overpowered or anything, or too much, or oh my that player has 10k energy shield nerf plz. It was pretty much shit in comparison to any player who went armor/health properly.

Energy shield has been a gimick from day one, and it is getting worse and worse and worse. The shield needs and i mean NEEDS a mitigation value somewhere to be viable in any way whatsoever. It needs to have mitigation that scales on level, and passives you invest (and not a flat value). Otherwise you just join a cruel or merciless map and get destroyed.



My Suggestion: Keystone: each point of missing energy shield reduces incoming damage by .1 points; You no longer gain damage mitigation from Armor. Possibly followed elsewhere by.


Keystone: each point of missing energy shield reduces incoming damage by an additional .1 points; You can no longer Block with Shields.

Keystone: each point of missing energy shield reduces incoming damage by an additional .1 points; You no longer gain Dodge from Evasion.


I think that might really be underpowered value-wise. But it would be a very very interesting set of keystones, since the downsides are so harsh i personally might not even use any of them but the armor one.

Essentially that would mean a player at 1k Energy shield total, when near 100 Energy shield would start absorbing 90 damage off every hit they take. Just flat out gone, it's not a percentage based absorb just a flat reduction. If they had all three keystones it would be 270 damage just flat out absorbed. Ideally this would mean as energy shield players get low, they can either run away for safety and regen, or stay in combat if the mobs aren't hitting hard enough to surpass their absorb values, and regenerate shield until the point they get hit again. It would completely change the way energy shield specs are made and played. You would be tankier at lower health, but also more in danger of dying instantly from an errant crit or some hard damage.

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Vipermagi wrote:

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mack1510 wrote:

Even if you had 10k ES and were running around going "lol you cant hit me" you were still weaker than a player with a properly built evasion or armor tank build.

A tank build takes more than 5 skill points and an Aura. CI was overpowered because 50% More ES was way too much end-game.

And sure, your tank has more effective Life... but if10k ES is enough to kill most everything dead, does it matter? If it was necessary, CI users would have simply gotten some more ES. It's not like 10k was the top-end.

I honestly feel like you just skipped over everything i wrote, and tried to strawman an opinion through as some kind of counterargument.

I explained clearly why more Energy shield looked like it was a large number, but was actually very small in comparison to effective health with other tanks. Saying that 10k HP is enough to kill most everything is ignoring the fact players with 10k ES at the time were probably getting wrecked in the 4th difficulty maelstrom map because those enemies hit for 1.4k+

atm ES is a bit underwhelming. Imo this is because of a deistinct lack of "large" ES nodes.

life p.e. has 8-8-12 or 8-8-18 clusters and etc. The two main ES clusters on the other hand are a flat 8-8-8-8-8 ones. The only notable ones are a single 15% ES/15% cd and another 18%ES.

it would help if the two main clusters ended in a 18% increased ES node to keep consistency with the rest of the clusters.

another problem with high ES is that ultimatly you have lower life/armor/evasion.

each of those provide an additional bonus: if you have high armor/hp you take less damage-> less time stunned/frozen/etc (from attacks) if you have high evasion you dodge those attacks nullifing status effects that may have comed from there + you reroll the criticals against you so even lower chance for status effects affecting you.

ES just gives you a 50% chance to avoid stun and that's it.

so it would be cool if p.e. CI added a 50% chance to avoid status effects (frozen, burn, shocked) in addition to what it does now. This would make it a really nice keystone imo since it would help ES in general in it's application:
Ideally you want to be able to run to regen ES if you get low, so avoiding being frozen helps wiht that.
you want to avoid burn cause it almost doubles your ES cd
you want to avoid shock to avoid being bursted down fast (which was a differance between life/ES imo, one was constant regen, the other was high shield/cd on regen)

I think GGG need to re-calibrate the elemental bonus part for the ES.

Have they done so since the -20% and -60% resist all, was launched?

As for the physical damage part, i dont see a need as its tied to accuracy.
Whereas spell isnt.




FYI: My suggestion would be:- added elemental bonus for the ES in the CI keystone.

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starsg wrote:

I think GGG need to re-calibrate the elemental bonus part for the ES.

Have they done so since the -20% and -60% resist all, was launched?

As for the physical damage part, i dont see a need as its tied to accuracy.
Whereas spell isnt.




FYI: My suggestion would be:- added elemental bonus for the ES in the CI keystone.

Do you mean resist or damage? I assume you mean reesist? That togehter with 50% chance to void elemental ailiments+stun would be interesting.