Energy Shield passives

"

epeli wrote:

Eh... when I've been saying ES/CI witches aren't viable, I've meant they're not HC viable.

...

But the problems you are experiencing are something completely different...
Your build's kinda bad. You're branching into multiple directions for rather useless reasons, wasting most passive points on tree traversal and you lack any meaningful damage. Ghost Reaver is not the answer for CI casters, especially if you lack damage to leech with. You'd want a Blood Rage CI shadow to get the most out of Ghost Reaver, Life Leech gem alone is useless.

So with you being of the opinion of CI/ES Witches not being HC viable, do you think my idea doomed as well?

My post is above yours a bit but I'll lay it out simply again.

I won't be a caster so I'll have high Wand Physical Damage on my side to Leech with 6% wand or something, maybe a Life Leech Mana Flask as well (not sure if "of Gluttony" can be a Mana Flask).

Then there's Blood Rage + Life Leech support gem. Being CI means I won't have need of life regen/recovery so I really want to try out Vaal's Pact ever since I first saw it.

It's very gear dependent, but I feel like I could throw out enough Power Siphon damage (lots of Shock stacks will help to boost Leech damage) to really keep my blue bar flowing upwards.

"

epeli wrote:

"

mack1510 wrote:

Alright, i give up.

I tried to make a ES Witch Viable, but i'm done, i'm stuck at level 48 and i can't get farther than Act 3 Cruel Werehouses.

Only place i can level is in a group, or by wasting portal scrolls and dying to almost every named mob i encounter without a 5 minute kitefest. Its absolutely horrendous and there's no value in energy shield whatsoever, even though as you can see i picked up quite a damn lot of ES nodes.

Eh... when I've been saying ES/CI witches aren't viable, I've meant they're not HC viable.
Death is sometimes unavoidable, lag/desync/disconnects are extremely dangerous, you will need better gear than other tanks and you will need to sacrifice a lot of passives and gear to survivability.

But the problems you are experiencing are something completely different...
Your build's kinda bad. You're branching into multiple directions for rather useless reasons, wasting most passive points on tree traversal and you lack any meaningful damage. Ghost Reaver is not the answer for CI casters, especially if you lack damage to leech with. You'd want a Blood Rage CI shadow to get the most out of Ghost Reaver, Life Leech gem alone is useless.

I got plenty of respec points, feed me a build spec that uses energy shield for survival that isn't a HP spec and isn't bad.

I really doubt you could make one, even though you so soundly told me i was wasting my passive points traversing the tree, when in reality all ES witch trees look like that, you have to pick up the ESCD delay.

"

Glowyrm wrote:

So with you being of the opinion of CI/ES Witches not being HC viable, do you think my idea doomed as well?

Sure, phys wand "caster" could work as an ES leech build. It still won't be HC viable because you just can't get safe amounts of ES buffer. But why don't you just roll an EK shadow or something? The whole ES leech thing works better as a shadow.

"

mack1510 wrote:

I got plenty of respec points, feed me a build spec that uses energy shield for survival that isn't a HP spec and isn't bad.

Feed you, eh...? I'd just start all over again rather than trying to respec than abomination. Any normal witch build will do. Just pick all the nearby ES nodes, concentrate on ES gear and learn to play better. It's not as easy as it used to be and yes, HP tanks have it much easier. Large mobs of ranged phys dmg dealers can be unforgiving and certain things like merc vaal rock fall will OHK you if you can't pop a granite flask.

"

mack1510 wrote:

I really doubt you could make one, even though you so soundly told me i was wasting my passive points traversing the tree, when in reality all ES witch trees look like that, you have to pick up the ESCD delay.

My 70 CI witch is doing just fine, so I certainly can make one.

I said you are wasting points on tree traversal because you are. Let's see...
- 10 wasted points to get Ghost Reaver and shadow ES nodes. With the 9 point tree traversal, you're getting 4% ES per skill point from those. There are 6 unpicked 8% ES nodes accessible and 5 more nearby when you branch left.
- 10 wasted points to get Static Blows + Chance to Shock, which barely do anything because your damage output is so low in the first place. (Status ailment duration is based on damage, too low and they won't trigger at all) Also, Hex Master is useless. You could've gone for Whispers of Doom instead already, but at such a low level it might be better to get another curse slot from an item.

Also, I never needed faster than 3.6s ES recharge on any of my CB CI witches, nor on my OB CI witch. Just a personal preference, but witches certainly never have needed shadow nodes.

To be honest, at first I thought your build was either a joke or you were trying to fail on purpose. Lvl48 without a single damage node and branching all over the place for no good reason? Seriously? Ignoring everything else to squeeze out a little bit more ES obviously won't work.

"

epeli wrote:

I said you are wasting points on tree traversal because you are. Let's see...
- 10 wasted points to get Ghost Reaver and shadow ES nodes. With the 9 point tree traversal, you're getting 4% ES per skill point from those. There are 6 unpicked 8% ES nodes accessible and 5 more nearby when you branch left.
- 10 wasted points to get Static Blows + Chance to Shock, which barely do anything because your damage output is so low in the first place. (Status ailment duration is based on damage, too low and they won't trigger at all) Also, Hex Master is useless. You could've gone for Whispers of Doom instead already, but at such a low level it might be better to get another curse slot from an item.

Also, I never needed faster than 3.6s ES recharge on any of my CB CI witches, nor on my OB CI witch. Just a personal preference, but witches certainly never have needed shadow nodes.

To be honest, at first I thought your build was either a joke or you were trying to fail on purpose. Lvl48 without a single damage node and branching all over the place for no good reason? Seriously? Ignoring everything else to squeeze out a little bit more ES obviously won't work.

Ghost reaver was an attempt to try to salvage the build, it was dying at level 40 without groups.

http://www.pathofexile.com/passive-skill-tree/AAAAAgMAAP0HYw5IEHsRLxFQEZYUsBdQHNwd2SepKwo6MDvhQ1RHBkwtT79XK2e9bRlzU3WKeLp-WX_GghCCHofbiGuP-pMnmZqboZ97oqOnK6yYtMW297vWvjrAVMEAwcXB88Lsw23UBdsa2-ffsOL344Tmgetj7Bjub_VL99c=

Is the current tree, i dropped ghost reaver and i was going for those Evasion/ES nodes, My damage output is actually fine, my problem is that i can't take three hits without dying, i can mow down enemies easy but if they get to me or hit me with a ranged attack i'm on the ground. This is made difficult by lightning damage not lending itself to stunning or preventing enemies from reaching you.

I'm contemplating just dropping the second evasion/es node and all 11 points spent to get it ,and going with the 6 ES nodes near where i am, and lightning passives. But frankly that wont solve my dying problem.

Doing 5% more lightning damage (50% efficiency) will not solve my problem. I have 800 ES and 400 HP in merciless ,and that's not going to let me go anywhere.


I'm no lifeless player that spends days formulating builds and maximizing potential but speaking to me like you're some kind of god tier player looking down on a casual is kind of childish don't you think? I consider myself skilled enough to manage well in this game and i've been playing beta for quite a long time, i took a path that seemed to lend itself to a tanky evasion type witch and i'm getting punished because the energy shield nodes do not provide enough bang for the buck, this build would have been more than viable pre CI nerf and i built even more sprawling tree grabbing fun on my witch in CBT.


Say i built this

http://www.pathofexile.com/passive-skill-tree/AAAAAgMAVysHY-aBc1MRULvWO-Hi96cri3ptGcHzoqN_xhzckyc3Ziympus3g-q6n3t4usHFT78d2UNU37CCEAelAuNJsiycwbTk7HYRfq-OvhEtfIPN-riT6-6ESDyOAW9XyTQKLR-NGeAS3Yy1hS5wpwiPRtDQm6Fnve5vg_c=

Same number of points,

I would have the EXACT same number of ES, 60% less ES cooldown, 80% less evasion, -20% to all three resists, Loads less Dex and Str, No permanent curses, ect ect.

And all i would have to show for it is 12% Cast speed, and 54% (meaning 22% with .5eff) more lightning damage. Which is a difference that's Equatable to equipping my wand. If Equipping a second wand was going to fix my build i would be beyond happy. I wanted a build with a low ES cooldown and tons of ES/Evasion and that's what i made, in 5 levels i'll have 30%+ More energy shield than your suggested build, and in 20 levels i'll have +70% more ES.

The trouble is i don't have enough right now, and honestly i'm pointing my finger more at my gear not having enough ES on it. ES pure gear could seriously use a buff.

"

epeli wrote:

"

Glowyrm wrote:

So with you being of the opinion of CI/ES Witches not being HC viable, do you think my idea doomed as well?

Sure, phys wand "caster" could work as an ES leech build. It still won't be HC viable because you just can't get safe amounts of ES buffer. But why don't you just roll an EK shadow or something? The whole ES leech thing works better as a shadow.

Well the idea is to have elemental damage as well on the wand (and maybe a totem) and the Templar has really good Elemental Damage to go with my Physical/Lightning Wand plan. That would be why I chose Witch over Shadow.

Do you know what a good amount of ES is for higher level people (50+?) I know people with 4k HP are considered in a good place, I was under the impression that it's possible to get ES higher than that though with good gear. If that's possible (or if I can even just get close, like 3.5k) I think it would be fine but your comment has me thinking that reaching 4k ES is not possible.

I've asked this question a lot and haven't gotten a solid answer. I have not ever been above level 30 since I last played in closed beta 6+ months ago. I don't really know what end game stats/gear look like so I'm not 100% sure what is attainable when it comes to high ES amounts.

Thank you for your advice so far. Do you think my idea with HP instead of ES is HC viable then in your opinion?

"

Glowyrm wrote:

"

epeli wrote:

"

Glowyrm wrote:

So with you being of the opinion of CI/ES Witches not being HC viable, do you think my idea doomed as well?

Sure, phys wand "caster" could work as an ES leech build. It still won't be HC viable because you just can't get safe amounts of ES buffer. But why don't you just roll an EK shadow or something? The whole ES leech thing works better as a shadow.

Well the idea is to have elemental damage as well on the wand (and maybe a totem) and the Templar has really good Elemental Damage to go with my Physical/Lightning Wand plan. That would be why I chose Witch over Shadow.

Do you know what a good amount of ES is for higher level people (50+?) I know people with 4k HP are considered in a good place, I was under the impression that it's possible to get ES higher than that though with good gear. If that's possible (or if I can even just get close, like 3.5k) I think it would be fine but your comment has me thinking that reaching 4k ES is not possible.

I've asked this question a lot and haven't gotten a solid answer. I have not ever been above level 30 since I last played in closed beta 6+ months ago. I don't really know what end game stats/gear look like so I'm not 100% sure what is attainable when it comes to high ES amounts.

Thank you for your advice so far. Do you think my idea with HP instead of ES is HC viable then in your opinion?

I'm level 50, I have 1k Energy Shield, 4k is unattainable.

"

Glowyrm wrote:

Do you know what a good amount of ES is for higher level people (50+?) I know people with 4k HP are considered in a good place, I was under the impression that it's possible to get ES higher than that though with good gear. If that's possible (or if I can even just get close, like 3.5k) I think it would be fine but your comment has me thinking that reaching 4k ES is not possible.

I would say around 2k HP / 3k ES is enough to solo softcore merciless(lvl52-63) comfortably, somewhat more for higher end maps, depending on the map mods. Very rough numbers, don't quote me on those.

When considering what ES is currently reachable versus closed beta numbers, the first thing to remember is the CI nerf. Every ES tank now has roughly one third less total ES, and that's a huge difference. For example, if you had 4k ES on a CB CI character, he would now have 2.7k.

I would say 2k is not enough for merciless, 2.5k is the bare minimum. Personally I settled at 3k and haven't met anyone with more than 3.5k. To give you an idea how bad things can be - I have seen a few badly geared and/or glass cannon witches struggling in merc/endgame with no more than 1300 ES. (I wonder who carried them there?)

"

Glowyrm wrote:

Do you think my idea with HP instead of ES is HC viable then in your opinion?

Probably not. HP tank is not an option for primary casters. No stats nor passives to support it whilst ES is everywhere.

"

epeli wrote:

"

Glowyrm wrote:

Do you know what a good amount of ES is for higher level people (50+?) I know people with 4k HP are considered in a good place, I was under the impression that it's possible to get ES higher than that though with good gear. If that's possible (or if I can even just get close, like 3.5k) I think it would be fine but your comment has me thinking that reaching 4k ES is not possible.

I would say around 2k HP / 3k ES is enough to solo softcore merciless(lvl52-63) comfortably, somewhat more for higher end maps, depending on the map mods. Very rough numbers, don't quote me on those.

When considering what ES is currently reachable versus closed beta numbers, the first thing to remember is the CI nerf. Every ES tank now has roughly one third less total ES, and that's a huge difference. For example, if you had 4k ES on a CB CI character, he would now have 2.7k.

I would say 2k is not enough for merciless, 2.5k is the bare minimum. Personally I settled at 3k and haven't met anyone with more than 3.5k. To give you an idea how bad things can be - I have seen a few badly geared and/or glass cannon witches struggling in merc/endgame with no more than 1300 ES. (I wonder who carried them there?)

"

Glowyrm wrote:

Do you think my idea with HP instead of ES is HC viable then in your opinion?

Probably not. HP tank is not an option for primary casters. No stats nor passives to support it whilst ES is everywhere.

I have around 4.2k ES with CI, mostly by crafting my chest (370+), shield (220+), gloves and headgear for ES and grabbing almost all ES nodes available near my passive branches. I'm now doing maps around lvl70s and though I won't say I'm struggling, I felt that I have to play more carefully and stay a few steps away from the pack to stay alive. Last night I died 3x in 3 different maps. If you're a totem guy, with CI and a flicker mob starts hitting you.. might as well alt-F4 because you WILL die.

So if there are any ways to buff CI it would help a lot for those that decide to use the keystone. People got to remember, its not as simple as ES replacing HP. You cannot use potions to regen CI instantly and have to sit through that cooldown period - which sucks at high levels when everyone is packing instant health pots for those critical moments.

I guess the issue with ES nodes is that as a primary defense, ES stacks multiplicatively with any secondary or tertiary form of defense like armor, resists and evasion/dodge/block.

That means in a mixed gear build, even relatively small amounts of ES, and consequently relatively small boosts to ES from passives, provide a signigicant increase in survivability. By comparison, pure ES builds only have a primary defense and therefore lack the important synergy that comes from combining different layers of defense.

With additional armor or evasion, every point spent in the second layer of defense multiplies with the primary defense. An 8% increase in ES with 50% mitigation turns into a 16% increase in ES. So the issue of ES builds is that where all other builds have at least 2 layers of defense, pure ES users only have one. Add to that that there are no flasks for ES and you end up with an underpowered build.

Sounds like a problem with pure ES items overall and not with CI/ESnodes specifically. Thus it should be rectified by boosting pure ES equipment, not by changing passives overmuch.