When are following issues being fixed? 1 Player HP in Party races and Critrolling
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Just daft.
Vaal doesn't save 40-50 seconds. You rather kill it in 40-50 seconds tagged. Weaver also gets tagged and once players enter it gets killed. Tagging bosses alone saves around 15-20 minutes in a1+a2. Look at the brutus and merveil times Tagged/Vs solo players and you easily find out those aren't "10-20 seconds" You just want to keep this exploit and pretend it wouldn't be that effective. | |
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Average vaal time for a party = 50-55 min
Average vaal time for a solo player = 65-70 min That difference comes from having to run EVERYTHING as a solo player, not from tagging bosses. The difference in brutus and merv kill times comes from a fact that brutus runner is pooled with 2-3 QS and merv runner is pooled with gear that allows him to leap straight to her being level 12. I don't care if tagging gets removed, this is not why we win party races. http://www.twitch.tv/comewithus
Posted by Chris on February 4, 2014 1:51 AM "When we mass-ban people for running these tools, don't say you weren't warned :P" | |
" Can we at least agree that you can do three things as a party: 1) The whole group does everything, not splitting the party at any point (= like solo) 2) Split the party, run to different quests, make TPs. 3) Split the party, run to different questsm, tag bosses to get 1 player HP, make TPs. There is a difference between 2) and 3). 3) is "boss tagging", 2 is not. I am asking for some numbers on the time savings because I have a feeling that the majority of the time savings are made when you move from 1 to 2. Moving from 2 to 3 still gives significant but smaller time savings. Edit: Bascially what cwu posted just above. Last edited by Hassefar60 on Dec 5, 2013, 5:31:55 PM
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Some things are clearly game mechanics and others are clearly exploits.
I don't see boss tagging as an exploit tbh. And i ask myself, what if this mechanic was changed so that boss hp would increase a flat ammount each time a player joined the instance? In reality, what would that accomplish? Nothing. An organised party will always outperform a solo player. Is that a bad thing? I don't think so. I think this would actually be bad for racing. You would be making it even less rewarding for parties to progress. And keep in mind i'm a solo player. I do most party races as solo and i don't expect to win them unless someone dies. Long are the days where IMD would beat arioc, siffin, dime, metro etc as solo. Our knowledge of racing in general makes that no longer a possibility. Again, i don't think this is necessarily wrong. I don't think solo players have to be able to compete in party races. I do think there are too many competitive party races as opposed to solo ones on the schedule but thats another problem. As for the crit being rolled per projectile/hit instead of per attack/spell, i completely agree. Because (most) spells can shotgun, there are certain mobs that when they roll a crit, you will probably die no matter how good your gear is - Lightning channelers and sparkers in Descent for example. So you either: - Try to skip the mob and hope you don't desync - Lose a little time and try to snipe the mob fast enough if you have good single target (sorry Witches) and pray it doesnt roll a crit - Lose a lot of time and run back/forth waiting for a good opportunity to attack All of the options suck. | |
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I have nothing better to do right now, so let's compare the killing times for a solo player vs party with tagging (i'm gonna go under assumption that boss kill time for a solo player is roughly the same as it is for a party killing non-tagged boss (maybe it's even faster for a party due to buffed auras damage and support witch).
Solo player: Leap slam marauder in a signature race http://www.twitch.tv/comewithus/b/484633909 Party with tagging bosses: No-life exploiters in a 3h fixed party race http://www.twitch.tv/morsrageng/b/482393957 Brutus Solo: 12s Party: 9s Difference: 3s Merveil Solo: 26s Party: 48s Difference: -22s Weaver Solo: 15s Party (5 player health): 38s Difference: -23s Fidelitas Solo: 9s Party: no video, rougly 10s from what i can gather from the voice chat Difference: -1s Alira Solo: 17s Party (5 player health): 33s Difference: -16s Kraityn Solo: 28s Party: 15s Difference: 13s Vaal Solo: 1m51s Party: 37s Difference: 1m14s As you can see my assumption was completely wrong. Since i don't have any videos of parties killing 6 player health bosses i can't make the correct comparison. One could also argue that i cheated by using the class with one of the strongest single target attacks and that i should compare party vs witch fireball/fp/spark or smtg. My goal was to show that time differentials are within dozens of seconds and that they do no sum up for 15-20 mins. http://www.twitch.tv/comewithus
Posted by Chris on February 4, 2014 1:51 AM "When we mass-ban people for running these tools, don't say you weren't warned :P" | |
" numbers never lie. your turn, Hilbert. | |
" Beat down to 5% let others join kill it. If you have so much time then get the weapons in use and links from the start of the fight. Never learned proper citation of sources? Bullshit Solo bla Party blabla Difference bla You clearly see bla. I can clearly see that the difference between both of your postings is only 1h 15min so you didn't do credible analysis you just posted links with the same claim. The merv difference in first entering Southern Forest between Party/Solo clearly shows that there is a bigger difference than 1 player getting flasks. Just compare logs: http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/639691 2013/11/24 03:27:14 2268575228 1db [INFO Client 257464] *: notevenlevelthirty is the first to enter The Southern Forest in Normal! --->27min 14 sec http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/639699/page/1 2013/11/24 17:27:22 2318983176 1db [INFO Client 992384] *: slashwhoami is the first to enter The Southern Forest in Normal!-->27min 22sec http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/616107/page/1 2013/11/17 14:24:37 1703218759 1db [INFO Client 1224720] *: PAYTOWINHEARTHSTONE is the first to enter The Southern Forest in Normal!-->24min 37sec -->Difference ~3 minutes. So you claim killing Hailrake takes 3 minutes?! Sorry but killing Hailrake takes 50-80 seconds at best if you come from mud flats. So Brutus and Merv tagged already offer a lack of 1 min 40 to 2min 10 seconds? According to your claim you would need more time in Party? Stop claiming this exploit is a small one. This exploit saves several minutes! Last edited by Hilbert on Dec 5, 2013, 7:43:19 PM
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The 3 minute difference in Forest enter times comes from this:
1) Brutus runner is pooled 2-3 QS (+ms boots if we have one) and tp scrolls which he burns, so that he can get to brutus asap being level 7 (almost without killing stuff on the way). 2) Merv runner gets gear so that he doesn't have to go to town and get a support gem / buy res rings. 3) Tagging bosses. From the same videos: Split 1: Climb entrance - Brutus dead Solo 7m21s Party1 3m20s Party2 4m11s Split 2: Ship graveyard entrance - Merveil dead Solo 6m53s Party1 6m13s Party2 5m58s It took me 4 more minutes to kill brutus with 1 QS than it took us in a party race. Granted i'm not a good prison runner, let's cut this time down to 2 minutes. Do you see the difference between a solo racer and pooled runner? Are you still going to pretend now that tagging saves several minutes? *Edit. Realised i was comparing solo progression with a fixed party race, so i've added times from normal 3h party - "Party2" (http://www.twitch.tv/morsrageng/b/481600852) http://www.twitch.tv/comewithus Posted by Chris on February 4, 2014 1:51 AM "When we mass-ban people for running these tools, don't say you weren't warned :P" Last edited by cwu on Dec 5, 2013, 9:18:33 PM
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Now you wanna claim you tag differently?
Usually you exp in upper prison level 8-9 10 if lucky champs when you reached the exit 5 players tp out and tp in again once brutus is tagged. Same thing with merv. The Boss areas are far away so their HP and the HP is only determined once somebody gets close. Having 1 runner while others are exping is so Closed Beta and has following issues: 1.Runner dies-->Even 1 player managed to die in Upper Prison/Caverns it was caused by shockstacks/puncture or suicider mobs and possibly desync. 2. The difference in experience in the end is using runners is bugged Our party used runners back in closed beta. We had 2 top tier runners but we barely had any runs with all 6 players surviving but when we had a good run we had some class demigods. 1. Rip in Cavern-->Entire Party must go. 2. Rip in sins-->Time advantage is lost. There isn't a single act which needs a 6 player split yet (I expect act4 to have got even more progression walls than act3) so instead of using the old 2 runner rest gains experience in Western Forest Method there is a split into 4 groups and 2 groups of 2 at level 16. Just stop trying to claim "Tagging is harmless" it's an exploit and the devs forgot about it. The Feedbackforum devanswer back in CB clearly shows it's not intended. If it wouldn't be such a big issue you wouldn't care if it gets fixed or not. But it is indeed a big deal and 20 min in expzones are easily 5-6 levels |
