Westboro Cult to protest Sandy Hook victims funerals....

@ Onionspam

We have some interesting laws in Australia which tend to prevent these things happening, which is maybe why they don't!

As an Australian I won't comment on the U.S. legal system, but purely as an 'Aussie' I'd say that these are not people who should be allowed out of their cage.

Having said that, you made what many would see as an unpopular call. You have my respect for having the courage to do so.

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Eggy wrote:

you made what many would see as an unpopular call. You have my respect for having the courage to do so.

Well thanks for the respect. I don't take that kind of compliment lightly. My stance on the matter is quite simple. I believe that me disagreeing with someone does not give me the right to shut them up, and CERTAINLY does not give any government the right to shut them up. You start with obvious things like the westboro punks, and then more and more people get silenced for more and more trivial "unpopular opinions". Add a few hundred years and you have a dictatorship or worse. It seems simple to me, but then again I am getting old and my views on personal liberty become less and less popular over the years.

Did you look at the petition? My understanding of it is to get them recognized as a hate group (which they are) so the government does not view them as a religious group that gets tax free benefits. I didn't actually read anything saying that it would limit their freedom of speech any more than they have it now. Could be wrong though.

@ iamstryker

That was my understanding also

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iamstryker wrote:

Did you look at the petition?

Yeah I did. TBH I am making a few assumptions since I don't know all the specifics about the rules for hate groups, but I think it's safe to assume that hate group laws include more than just exemption from tax-free status. As always I could be wrong, but the whole thing feels a bit "decency police" to me. Like I said, I'm not a believer in punishing people for having different beliefs than me, as long as it stays with verbal protests.

Im not sure either although I don't think its consistent to let people try to incite anger/violence in this manner. Freedom of speech does not give me the right to threaten people and not be arrested, in the same manner I don't see why they should be allowed to do what they do at funerals. If someone attacks them out of anger I think they are just as responsibile as the person or persons attacking them.

To my knowlege from what I've seen they do not threaten anyone, they just protest stupid things. Don't get me wrong here, I hate them with a passion and think that they are the lowest of the low, BUT I don't expect the law to protect me from stupidity.

If they were to protest the funeral of a member of my family, many of us would most likely attack them, and would be arrested for it. This is as it should be.

Now if I knew for a fact that the petition ONLY kept them from claiming tax-exempt status then I would sign it in a heartbeat, but I would do the same for any religion since I think the tax-exempt rule for religions is a crappy law in the first place and an obvious trade-off for votes.

I guess that Australians have a reputation for not giving a damn about authority and that may or may not be deserved. What we do have are laws that greet racist or hate statements with imprisonment.

I don't know that they get used much though because by the time 'the authorities' get there it's usually all over.

The leader of a political party once made some statements seen as racist. She had to be evacuated from her meeting under police protection.

We had a situation in one of our coastal suburbs a couple of years ago when some people from a particular religion started throwing their weight around. The instant riot ended that one and their religious leaders publicly condemned their actions. When the last couple get out of jail they will probably find out their neighbours have loooong memories.

Closer in time there were some people demonstrating about a movie made that ridiculed someone. Some of them had their kids holding posters calling for execution of the guy concerned.

They were arrested and given a very hard time by the cops initially, then by their own religious leaders and then by the community at large. It hasn't happened since.

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Onionspam wrote:

Sorry but no. As evil and disgusting as the Westboro creeps are, I refuse to sign something to further this tragedy by limiting their freedom of speech in any way. Remember the patriot act everyone went insane over? This is the same concept. Taking a tragedy and using it to limit any freedom we have just deepens the tragedy. Honestly in my opinion the aforementioned Australian solution is preferable to this.

Actually, to be honest I'm not sure why someone hasn't taken Westboro to court. You have freedom of speech until those freedoms impose on someone else, just as it goes for any of our freedoms in the constitution, and the picketing that Westboro does could easily be considered harassment, sexual harassment, and emotional abuse.

Racism, Sexism, and any other type of ignorance in which imposes on the freedoms of equality are not tolerated in this country, and by my regards this is blatant harassment

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harassment (either harris-meant or huh-rass-meant) n. the act of systematic and/or continued unwanted and annoying actions of one party or a group, including threats and demands. The purposes may vary, including racial prejudice, personal malice, an attempt to force someone to quit a job or grant sexual favors, apply illegal pressure to collect a bill, or merely gain sadistic pleasure from making someone fearful or anxious.

Sorry, but Freedom is fine, I love it. But that doesn't mean you have the right to do whatever you please.

Westboro has been sued before in a case that dragged on for a long time. It went back and forth but ultimately ended with the supreme court ruling in favor of Westboro. Very sad.

Here is the link

http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,2056613,00.html