$10 for 10 more guild spots is a farce.

"

B2BigAl wrote:

Gotta say, I was pretty disappointed they didn't give you any guild stash tabs. That felt a kinda...cheap IMO. Then, making them 50 points each, that's even worse. Admittedly, I did buy one, but it didn't set well with me.

Its not cheap it is business. Guild tabs are luxuries, not requirements.

.

I bought two stash tabs because I couldn't think of anything I wanted in the store.

"

thats like saying exp boosts are not p2w because you can do it anyway, just takes more time


stash tabs have an impact on how fast you can be successful. Item skins/effects do not.

they are imo p2w

That's actually a good point.

Guild members can trade without stash tabs...

And anyway, get members to contribute a few points and poof your guild gets bigger and has more stash tabs.

"

johnKeys wrote:

please think this through, <<<Antagonizing comment snipped>>>>

the guy has a whole stash tab of maps. you don't.
and for the sake of simplicity, we'll assume all his other tabs and their contents are exactly identical to yours, and you are both the same level, same build, same gear, running the same kind of maps.

now let's expand this concept to Guilds:

you have a guild called "me and my 2 friends <M2F>". 3 members. 0 or 1 Guild Stash tabs.
other guild called "all welcome <ALL>" has 200 members, and more tabs than they can count.

Guild Challenge X comes in.

who do you think has higher odds to complete this challenge? <M2F> or <ALL>?

harder version of same question: you are #1 on the Ladder and your 2 friends are #2 and #3 respectively.
<ALL> has only one guy with one high level character.
does this change the answer to the previous question?


TL;DR Guilds are bad, and are a huge, huge step toward making the game Pay-To-Win.

Guilds are in no way bad. Players could make guilds before GGG added convenience measures.

The same thing applies to stash space.

Fortunately, we don't need to speculate as there are previous real world(game) history to draw on.

The easiest example:

Diablo 2.

No guild support whatever.

Did that stop guilds? No.

Did it prevent people from having mules and unofficial guild stashes? No.

Did it stop guilds from teaming up to try and boost one or more of their players when a new ladder came out? No.

All a guild really needs to be able to do these things is:

1) some way to transfer/trade items between characters

2)the ability to join games with players of their choice

3)some way to either have more characters or more inventory stash space.


I was in a very loose knit guild, a few hundred members and they had thousands of mules. Granted, the Ber rune mule, the Zod mule and a couple other very high end mules were never full, but the other mules filled up often enough that they would have giveaways.


The guild was OP in many ways, not because of anything Blizzard did with Diablo 2 to support guilds, but because the players actively contributed to the guild and helped each other out.


GGG is merely making it more convenient for people to form guilds and organize resources. That they have a small fee for this ($1 per new member) isn't a bad deal at all.

Guild stash pages are likely to be kept fairly full, so they will take more resources. When you consider if the game stays popular like Diablo 2 did for a long time and that the one time price of a page may be paying for server space for several years, then the price is fair.


IMO - GGG should have some package deals for guilds and maybe guild supporter packs, but they should be priced so that long term they actually support further development and maintenance costs rather than become a drain on them.

<edit> - Diablo 2 did have custom chat channels which helped people interact quite a bit for guilds or other purposes.

"

Hanatsu wrote:

Spoiler

"

johnKeys wrote:

"

Hanatsu wrote:

Stash tabs being p2w??,.. the luls.

That guy only beat me in pvp and racing because he had more stash tabs!! I cant farm maps because i don't have more stash tabs. The other guild wins all the challenges because those P2W noobs bought Guild stash tabs.. like seriously people this is what your saying? I think a matter of skill and wildly confusing errors between your chair and keyboard are the issue here not stash tabs.

please think this through, instead of jumping in and commenting like a prick.

the guy has a whole stash tab of maps. you don't.
and for the sake of simplicity, we'll assume all his other tabs and their contents are exactly identical to yours, and you are both the same level, same build, same gear, running the same kind of maps.

now let's expand this concept to Guilds:

you have a guild called "me and my 2 friends <M2F>". 3 members. 0 or 1 Guild Stash tabs.
other guild called "all welcome <ALL>" has 200 members, and more tabs than they can count.

Guild Challenge X comes in.

who do you think has higher odds to complete this challenge? <M2F> or <ALL>?

harder version of same question: you are #1 on the Ladder and your 2 friends are #2 and #3 respectively.
<ALL> has only one guy with one high level character.
does this change the answer to the previous question?

You first example is pretty self explanatory "The guy has a whole stash tab of maps, you don't" ,...You don't get free maps from buying stash tabs, Why would someone who is serious in running maps not prioritize space for his map pool. You're suggesting because the other guy didn't buy stash tabs he must throw out all of his maps n not progress because he doesn't have room? Having extra stash tabs is highly convenient, not a cure for stupidity.

Second example, Where is the logic that somehow a guild of 3 friends is suppose to compete vs a larger guild on equal standing unless the larger guild has stash tabs?? Take out the Guild stash entirely and you would still have guilds far larger then others is it unfair that people have more friends then you?

Third example: Poe's event all run off Racing and soon to be pvp. If your three man guild has the top 3 players they are winning. PvP as well, who do you think will be raking in the kills in tournament points the 100 low level players with bad gear or the top of ladder, geared out one shotting other players. I can guarantee the top guilds will be guilds containing players already making a name for themselves in the racing/league season ladders.

So i'll give you your advice in return,.. think this through.

GGG has made an amazing in-dept game that takes theory crafting and skill (not stash tabs) to new levels in the ARPG world. I personally have logged hundreds of hours playing and don't plan to stop anytime soon. Why would i not invest in my time to further enjoy the game with things like convenient stash tabs. Simple ($5) makes my game experience little more fun and helps GGG make more content for me later. Where else are you going to find 100's of hours of entertainment like this at those prices?

Also having mule accounts is infinitely free tabs GGG has stated that multiboxing is perfectly fine as long as your not automating their controls then it becomes bannable botting.

Please learn to use logic or at least common sense before going to slander such a good game like Poe in its own forums. <='.'=>

let's make a few things clear, Hanatsu:

1) in my first scenario, the exact phrasing should be "the guy has a whole stash tab for his maps. you don't." the scenario assumes you both have the same maps. this should make it clear.

2) places for members in a Guild cost money too, not just Stash.
this is in fact, what this thread is all about.
assuming two guilds have no stash, one has 30 members, and the other 31 => the 2nd Guild paid money to get the advantage of one extra member. and it's an advantage indeed.
and if one Guild has a Guild Stash while the other doesn't - that's an advantage as well.
a paid advantage.

3) I'm not against supporting GGG. on the contrary. they did one hell of a job with Path Of Exile, and deserve it. they also have huge maintenance costs running the game, and need to bring food to their family tables at the end of the day.
but Support needs to be done because you want to support, not because you want some in-game advantage. because you Pay To Win.
they also promised no aspect of the game will ever be P2W.
the Guild system as it stands today, is breaking that promise, while CB/OB Supporter Packs and most Microtransactions (excluding Stash Tabs) never did.

if GGG intend to proceed with this, the game description should be changed to "free to play, with a few optional P2W aspects". namely Guilds.
you can choose not to play Guilds, but you'll be missing out on some game content.
you can support GGG, but use your points on pets and cosmetics instead of your Guild - and your Guild will be at a disadvantage.

so I'll repeat this yet again: the Guild system as it stands, is Pay To Win.


EDIT: @DalaiLama,
I'm not talking about Guilds in D2. I'm talking about Guilds in Path Of Exile.
truth be told, I never was in a Guild in D2 - so my knowledge of D2 Guilds is non-existent.

in PoE, the ability to trade stuff between Guild members without meeting them - namely Guild Stash - costs money. the ability to recruit additional people to your Guild, costs money.
and you know what? I would be somewhat ok with this, if it wasn't for the knock-out punch:
upcoming Guild challenges.
creating a competition between Guilds that is in no way fair, and provides advantages based on total amount of money spent.
P2W, by any definition I can think of.

What's a farce is the game is free to play. Yet people still fucking whinge their tits off. Bending the most inane of shit into "P2W!!!!!!!"

That my friend, is a fucking farce.

I bought 10 stash tabs for our guild, because I like the guys in it and it seemed well worth it to me.

I dont think its P2W. But I do think its the first aspect of the game in a way they are taking advantage of - A LITTLE BIT -

I've donated over 90$ to the game so far, because I think its agood company / game, but in retrospect what I've gotten on the dollar (compared to if I had given 90$ to a title or subscription game) isn't much more.

When I look at the cost to expand/better my guild functionality it seems a bit steep.
IMO the minimum size should have been 50. Tab packages and NON premium options should exist, and honestly it should have come with 3 or 4 free tabs, not - Not even a single one -

When you add a function to the game that REQUIRES $ to even initiate, then its kinda like.. HMMM
(Guild Stash requires $ to even start one up) 5$ per tab is a little steep. So is whatever rdiciulous price it is per member for expansion.

GGG can do whatever they want, just seems a bit high.