Cold-crit CI witch build
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this is also Necrogoblins post
"If you had a spell that had a cast time of 1 sec, you would cast 60 times over one minute. If the spell did 100 damage, that would be 6000 after a minute. A 5% spell dam increase would be 105dam*60casts= 6300dam A 3% increase in cast time would let you cast 61.8 times a minute so 100cam*61.8casts=6180 damage." add to this calculations from my previous post. I really want to get this thing right but numbers are talking by themselves u know maybe theres no point talking more about it, there are few, well there were, few calculators on web but with the old tree. Since January 23rd there will be probably new version, then we can check it for sure adn about ur calculations: "lvl 17 freezing pulse is 155 base damage on average. (124-187) assuming one cast per second with 155 damage + 150% from passives (spell damage, elemental damage, cold damage etc) would equal 387 dps. If you added 6% more cold damage you would now be at 397 dps If you added 3% cast speed you would now be at 399 dps" about 6% cld dmg its (155+ 6%)+150% is 410,75 |
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" Your problem is that you are completely failing to take into account that you have multiple bonuses to your damage from various sources. Let me break it down for you.. I have a spell that deals 100 damage and takes 1 second to cast It has a 10% crit rate It crits for 2x damage (Crit multiplier = 100%) I cast the spell 10 times with a naked character with 0 passive skills It takes 10 seconds and does a total of 1100 damage. It does 110dps If I add 100% spell damage it now takes 10 seconds to cast but does 2400 damage. It does 240 dps (having the 10% crit for 2x damage increased it 20dps above what the 100% spell damage accounted for. Thus crit rate scales more as you add spell damage) I still have the 100% spell damage but now I have a choice of doing the following; I can add another 30% spell damage. I can add 100% crit chance, I can add 40% crit multiplier or I can add 10% cast speed. 30% more spell damage = 2760 damage, 276dps 100% crit chance = 2800 damage, 280dps 40% crit mult = 2480 damage, 248dps 10% cast speed = 2640 damage, 264 dps So.. crit chance is clearly best right? Wrong.. in this case it is but only because we started with a 10% base crit rate. If it was instead 1% then adding 100% chance to 1 simply makes it 2%. That would be a near negligible dps increase. This is what im trying to say... you need to understand the relationship between the attributes rather than blindly go for one or the other. One reason why people prefer Crit Multiplier over crit chance is due to diamond flasks, and they are very wise to do so but that doesn't mean crit chance is never worth picking up. It all depends on the build.. it depends on the items.. it depends on the base crit rate, the base physical damage, the base elemental damage.. it depends on a lot of different things even down to how much resistance the mobs have. Increasing one thing (like physical damage) might give you less overall dps on paper but it could give you more dps against mobs that have high elemental resists, it all depends on the situation. [Sorry if my math is off, I've had a few drinks and I'm just in from a long day at work but the principle should be sound] | |
" no, it would be worked out as 155x2.56 rather than 164.3x2.5. Any % increases from the passive tree that effect cold or spell damage for example all happen after the base spell damage is calculated, you don't add it on before for some and after for others. item modifiers from rings and quivers etc don't always follow the same rule however. Last edited by Korgath on Dec 25, 2012, 8:32:19 PM
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double post :/
Last edited by Korgath on Dec 25, 2012, 8:28:00 PM
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Man thx for ur work frst of all.... but!! ;]
can u write calculation on those coz i think thats the point of our conversation ; 30% more spell damage = 2760 damage, 276dps 100% crit chance = 2800 damage, 280dps 40% crit mult = 2480 damage, 248dps 10% cast speed = 2640 damage, 264 dps if u will explain me how uve counted those numbers i can compare it with 5%dmg and 3% cast speed nodes |
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All of these calculations are basically based off of having one or the other. Which is completely worthless.
This will be the only time I try to explain this, so here we go. As you can see, the more crit chance you have, the more you crit (obviously). So, having a decent base crit chance is a worthwhile goal. HOWEVER, and this is the important part, we have a flask that allows for 100% crit chance. What does this mean? Well, it means overly investing in crit chance is a completely useless endeavor. So, what to do? Invest in crit multi. Since this multiplies our ENTIRE damage. So, while you go about adding 4-5% ele nodes. I'm adding 10% crit multi nodes. And a 30% one at the end of throatseeker. That's a TON of damage. It would take you 6 nodes at 5% increase in spell damage to rival that. Remember, when we're on diamond flasks here. So, what else can you do to increase damage? Since diamond flasks are only 2.8 seconds? long at 20% quality. The best way to maximize DPS PER FLASK, is to cast as much as possible. Since everything during this time period will be a crit. This is where cast speed comes into play. 3% cast speed DIRECTLY equates to 3% more (or increased, not sure which), crit damage. While a 4% increase in elemental damage, although increases the base spell dmg, which leads to more crit damage, does NOT equal doing more damage over the time of that flask. Lets say, you can get 3 shots off at 10k a piece on diamond, while I can get 4 at 8k (which is a huge difference). Since I'm getting one extra shot in, that leaves you with 30k, and me at 32k. That one extra spell, with the right build and gear, can EASILY trump having more spell dmg per cast. Whoever wants to work out the actual math, be my guest. I'm merely pointing out how the dynamic works. | |
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i have never think abouit it this way, thank you too ;]
why to pick crt nodes at all then? if u know that u will use diamonds later on, maybe pick them for early game and then use respect points? |
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Because some are "easy pickings". Or are right next to crit multi nodes.
I will post a revised skill tree once OB comes and im in A3. But here's the basic point: Even with 4 diamond flasks, is it really worth it to expend one for some blues or even a pack of whites? Sometimes yes, sometimes no. But, since I can increase my crit chance by 2x 99% (avg 80%+) on wands. Grabbing a little bit doesn't hurt. The reason I'm thinking of grabing those heartseeker nodes, is simply because thats a TON more dmg, and honestly, you may be right though. Once I get em, I may need to respec. However, I just dont view 4% inc in ele nodes worth it. Again, I will not go straight there, as that is basically lvl 90+ I will most likely grab that small increase nodes, until I can respec in the crit multi all at once. If it's more DPS on diamond, I keep it. If not, respec back | |
" Not sure how I done it but I messed up at the start of those saying that 10 normal casts was 1200 so that threw off the rest of everything so just forget those numbers, I'll correct it here for you I'll write down as well. -------------------- 100 base damage per cast | 1 cast per second | 10 seconds of casting |10% base crit rate | 100% crit multiplier normal 10 seconds casting = (100x9)+(100x2)= 1100 damage First part is the 9 hits that didnt crit, second is the one that did 100% spell damage = (100x2x9)+(100x2x2) = 2200 damage, or 1100 damage multiplied by 2 ----------------------------------------- 100% spell damage + 30% spell damage on top of that = (100x2.3x9)+(100x2.3x2) = 2530 damage,or 1100 damage multiplied by 2.3 ----------------------------------------- 100% spell damage + 100% critical strike chance = (100x2x8)+(100x2x4) = 2400 damage 2 crits instead of one, so 8 normal hits with 100% spell damage and then 2 hits that deal an additional 100% damage of 200 damage (crit multiplier = 100%) ----------------------------------------- 100% spell damage + 40% crit multiplier = (100x2x9)+(100x2x2.4) = 2280 damage same as the first spell damage except the increased crit multiplier makes it 200x2.4 rather than 200x2 ------------------------------------------ 100% spell damage + 10% cast speed = 11 casts instead of 10. 1.1 attacks will crit on average. 200x11=2200 damage without crits 1.1 crits at x2 damage = (200x1.1)x2 = 440 damage 200x9.9 = 1980 + (200x1.1)x2 = 440 total damage = 2420 damage ------------------------------------------- Summery; Normal attack = 110dps 100% spell damage = 220dps 130% spell damage = 253dps 100% spell damage + 100% crit chance = 240dps 100% spell damage + 40% crit multiplier = 228dps 100% spell damage + 10% cast speed = 242dps Try changing the base stats (damage, crit chance, attack speed) and try adding integers as well (so instead of 100 damage you add +10 damage from a ring and it does 110 damage per hit instead) and then working it out and it should be fairly obvious how the different things interact. If anyone notices any mistakes please do correct me. I've went over it but needless to say I'm not perfect, certainly not at 3am after working all day and drinking as well :D | |
" Pretty much this, changing one thing or another at a time is fairly straight forward but it's when you make change upon change that complicates things. Diamond flasks are one of those things that totally make one stat (Crit chance) not as valuable and in turn inflates another. Having certain properties on weapons (attack speed, crit chance etc) can also have a huge influence due to the order in which things are calculated. |
