Accuracy – The Last Remnant of Action?

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zeto wrote:

@Xapti: the % value you see given your level will always give you a relative guideline of how you will fare against a similarly powerful opponent, PvP or not. Part of this is being able to tell, by trial and error and knowledge, if your target has high evasion or low and then how to counter it.

How do you know this?

If you know that as a fact, then that means you know the formula for chance to hit. Can you tell me that? (since in my post I mentioned how I couldn't find a complete one, just two that malice mentioned — one being incomplete, and the other hugely disagreeing with what you just said.

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zriL wrote:

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Xapti wrote:

A marauder putting 80% of his points into str and 20% of his points into dex will wind up with the same amount of dex as a duelist, but with more strength than a duelist.
Marauder/primary_class only loses this advantage when 50% or more of their points are put off their main attribute (at which point they could in theory switch to the other primary class, which in the case of duelist vs marauder, would be ranger)

It's not that simple, if you want to use mostly str passives (for the passives, not the attribute) and you need some dex (the attribute, not necessarily the passives), your best option is the duelist. Because with the marauder, you wouldn't have enough dex, and with the ranger you'd waste your points (since you take mostly str passives)

No. I don't think you're understanding me. Marauder will always have the same amount of dex and more str than a duelist if they both spend the same passives, and both spend at least 50% of their passive points on str.

The main reason to be a duelist right now is for the endurance/frenzy charges.

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Xapti wrote:

No. I don't think you're understanding me. Marauder will always have the same amount of dex and more str than a duelist if they both spend the same passives, and both spend at least 50% of their passive points on str.

The main reason to be a duelist right now is for the endurance/frenzy charges.

...huh? Since when does a marauder get 6 dex per point spent?

Doing the math - 2 points of each stat per level, we can factor that out. That leaves the marauder getting 6 strength and 2 dexterity per point invested in one of those trees, and the duelist getting 4 for the same. 50/50 split, at, say, level 40 gets you 160 strength and 40 dexterity for the marauder, and 80 of each for the duelist.

I'm not seeing where the "same amount of dex for the same passives" comes in, here.

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Xapti wrote:

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zriL wrote:

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Xapti wrote:

A marauder putting 80% of his points into str and 20% of his points into dex will wind up with the same amount of dex as a duelist, but with more strength than a duelist.
Marauder/primary_class only loses this advantage when 50% or more of their points are put off their main attribute (at which point they could in theory switch to the other primary class, which in the case of duelist vs marauder, would be ranger)

It's not that simple, if you want to use mostly str passives (for the passives, not the attribute) and you need some dex (the attribute, not necessarily the passives), your best option is the duelist. Because with the marauder, you wouldn't have enough dex, and with the ranger you'd waste your points (since you take mostly str passives)

No. I don't think you're understanding me. Marauder will always have the same amount of dex and more str than a duelist if they both spend the same passives, and both spend at least 50% of their passive points on str.

The main reason to be a duelist right now is for the endurance/frenzy charges.

No, Marauder won't have the same dex as a duelist with the same passives. However, Marauder can always have more str and same dex as a duelist with another set of passives (which has, in this case, more dex passives but still more str passives than dex passives).
Besides, I was speaking about a case where I want more than 50% str passives, but I also want more dex than the dex I would get from this build with a marauder. In this case, duelist is a good choice.

And no, I can go endurance charges with a ranger and make it work if I want.

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zeto wrote:

You pretty much solved the problem in your own post...

Those two examples where part of the same issue, hence the reason I had them in the same paragraph. To simplify it for you, I see both possible scenarios as negative ones.

And there's nothing tactical about gambling, no matter what odds are involved. In any case casters not having to deal with accuracy while physical characters do is just going to make PvP stupid. Its ok to make one character stack a stat to counter misses and still get screwed by RNG but another to never even have to do either?

I don't wish to get into a PvP debate however, I have little interest taking part in a game of this nature.

After having read through this I think that both approaches are valid. However, if one is to have a stat based system like PoE has, hitting successfully should be as satisfying as possible.

Diablo 1 comes to mind. Swooshing was very frustrating but smacking those little imps in the face after a few tries when you first walked into the dungeon felt immensely satisfying.

Right now skills like Cleave (for example) feel very "light", whether you hit or not.

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Skivverus wrote:

Doing the math - 2 points of each stat per level, we can factor that out. That leaves the marauder getting 6 strength and 2 dexterity per point invested in one of those trees, and the duelist getting 4 for the same.

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zriL wrote:

No, Marauder won't have the same dex as a duelist with the same passives. However, Marauder can always have more str and same dex as a duelist with another set of passives

And no, I can go endurance charges with a ranger and make it work if I want.

Right... I forgot that marauder had to spend a bit larger share of points into dex passives. I mis-remembered how it worked, and then got overconfident about it, lol.

Anyway, Rangers do not work well with endurance charges because you have only maximum 2 charges base, and then maximum 3 additional charges (which is probably impossible to get all 3 without either being very high level, or too heavily invested in str). With the lower pool of health they get from leveling, it also makes them a bit less effective overall.

I'm not saying they can't get endurance charges, just that it's really inefficient. Hybrid classes are the way to go to get 2 charge types.

some of the elements are just leftovers from pen and paper rpgs imo.
mostly the chance based stuff.
doesnt belong in hack and slash genre imo, just a matter of time before someone figures out a way to switch ones.

dont get me wrong, its not a very bad element, its just as more and more hack and slash games are released - this element should just go away.