A) - This is dangerous to use Saffell Frame because it only works against bosses that use spells only - because you will have 0% regular block chance. The only hard boss I can think of that is PURE SPELL is Mageara at 76 Crematorium, every other hard boss uses SPELLS + ATTACKS -> Dominus, Atziri, Piety, Courtyard Bosses, Death and Taxes, Atziri Trio, Atziri Vaal. So the tradeoff is really not worth it, UNLESS you are set on playing 90% of the time at range - then I think it could work.
Also keep in mind that Rathpith gives 10% increased maximum life - which is a LOT of life now after the patch.
Anyway - if you decide to do this let me know how it works out. I have tried taking off Rathpith and using Saffell many times with more points saved from not having to get block, but I am a melee guy at heart xD so having the 0% block just doesn't work for me.
B) - I tested it out and Arcing Blows is not worth it. That is why I redid the tree. You want to stack as much phys damage % increase as you can as this increases both your physical and lightning and cold and fire, as they are all based on a % of your physical damage. Arcing Blows only increases your lightning. If you want more freeze and shock you need to stack crit. With those 3 points I tried different set ups:
1. Throat Seeker crit mult - this was the best investment for me
2. Shadow phys damage nodes - 2nd best option
3. Aspect of the Panther nodes - good phys damage, but less than Shadow nodes, you also get more attack speed though
4. Forces of Nature - very strong elemental buff for both COLD and LIGHT, but no buff to phys
5. Arcing Blows - very strong buff just to light, but no buff to phys or cold
I was trying to figure out the best combo for me to do the most damage for freezing and turns out the Crit Multiplier was the way to go.
Based on what BIG wrote I might try and get crit chance instead of crit multi and see how that compares.
Okay! I might try it out. My aim for the build is to 1. complete 78 map bosses with ease (Main) 2. Atziri or even Uber Atziri. Regarding 78 Palace Dominus, would his touch of god 1 shot me if it miraculously gets pass evasion>dodge>block? (Assuming easy or no mods on the map)
A) - This is dangerous to use Saffell Frame because it only works against bosses that use spells only - because you will have 0% regular block chance. The only hard boss I can think of that is PURE SPELL is Mageara at 76 Crematorium, every other hard boss uses SPELLS + ATTACKS -> Dominus, Atziri, Piety, Courtyard Bosses, Death and Taxes, Atziri Trio, Atziri Vaal. So the tradeoff is really not worth it, UNLESS you are set on playing 90% of the time at range - then I think it could work.
Also keep in mind that Rathpith gives 10% increased maximum life - which is a LOT of life now after the patch.
Anyway - if you decide to do this let me know how it works out. I have tried taking off Rathpith and using Saffell many times with more points saved from not having to get block, but I am a melee guy at heart xD so having the 0% block just doesn't work for me.
B) - I tested it out and Arcing Blows is not worth it. That is why I redid the tree. You want to stack as much phys damage % increase as you can as this increases both your physical and lightning and cold and fire, as they are all based on a % of your physical damage. Arcing Blows only increases your lightning. If you want more freeze and shock you need to stack crit. With those 3 points I tried different set ups:
1. Throat Seeker crit mult - this was the best investment for me
2. Shadow phys damage nodes - 2nd best option
3. Aspect of the Panther nodes - good phys damage, but less than Shadow nodes, you also get more attack speed though
4. Forces of Nature - very strong elemental buff for both COLD and LIGHT, but no buff to phys
5. Arcing Blows - very strong buff just to light, but no buff to phys or cold
I was trying to figure out the best combo for me to do the most damage for freezing and turns out the Crit Multiplier was the way to go.
Based on what BIG wrote I might try and get crit chance instead of crit multi and see how that compares.
Okay! I might try it out. My aim for the build is to 1. complete 78 map bosses with ease (Main) 2. Atziri or even Uber Atziri. Regarding 78 Palace Dominus, would his touch of god 1 shot me if it miraculously gets pass evasion>dodge>block? (Assuming easy or no mods on the map)
you can get 1 shoted even by normal dominus from lvl 68 map with the touch of god if it crits xD
dominus smash is half phy half lightning , iv been 1 shoted by him with 5k ES , 84% lightning res and 14k armour... so if with that stats u can get one shooted then someone who has 0 armor and no high lightning res can get 1 shoted even easyer buuuuuuuuuuuut however u are forgetting u are playing a fking blind build right? so think about it if u blind dominus and u use jade flask i doubt he is able to hit u with his touch of god since its an attack so take that in count :D
Edit: and remember what the build owner said "its not a tank build" and thats right... theres no reason for u to facetank him, u can simply whirling blade away and come back after he uses his smash.
Last edited by BIGLITRO on Sep 12, 2014, 3:20:46 PM
A) - This is dangerous to use Saffell Frame because it only works against bosses that use spells only - because you will have 0% regular block chance. The only hard boss I can think of that is PURE SPELL is Mageara at 76 Crematorium, every other hard boss uses SPELLS + ATTACKS -> Dominus, Atziri, Piety, Courtyard Bosses, Death and Taxes, Atziri Trio, Atziri Vaal. So the tradeoff is really not worth it, UNLESS you are set on playing 90% of the time at range - then I think it could work.
Also keep in mind that Rathpith gives 10% increased maximum life - which is a LOT of life now after the patch.
Anyway - if you decide to do this let me know how it works out. I have tried taking off Rathpith and using Saffell many times with more points saved from not having to get block, but I am a melee guy at heart xD so having the 0% block just doesn't work for me.
B) - I tested it out and Arcing Blows is not worth it. That is why I redid the tree. You want to stack as much phys damage % increase as you can as this increases both your physical and lightning and cold and fire, as they are all based on a % of your physical damage. Arcing Blows only increases your lightning. If you want more freeze and shock you need to stack crit. With those 3 points I tried different set ups:
1. Throat Seeker crit mult - this was the best investment for me
2. Shadow phys damage nodes - 2nd best option
3. Aspect of the Panther nodes - good phys damage, but less than Shadow nodes, you also get more attack speed though
4. Forces of Nature - very strong elemental buff for both COLD and LIGHT, but no buff to phys
5. Arcing Blows - very strong buff just to light, but no buff to phys or cold
I was trying to figure out the best combo for me to do the most damage for freezing and turns out the Crit Multiplier was the way to go.
Based on what BIG wrote I might try and get crit chance instead of crit multi and see how that compares.
Okay! I might try it out. My aim for the build is to 1. complete 78 map bosses with ease (Main) 2. Atziri or even Uber Atziri. Regarding 78 Palace Dominus, would his touch of god 1 shot me if it miraculously gets pass evasion>dodge>block? (Assuming easy or no mods on the map)
you can get 1 shoted even by normal dominus from lvl 68 map with the touch of god if it crits xD
dominus smash is half phy half lightning , iv been 1 shoted by him with 5k ES , 84% lightning res and 14k armour... so if with that stats u can get one shooted then someone who has 0 armor and no high lightning res can get 1 shoted even easyer buuuuuuuuuuuut however u are forgetting u are playing a fking blind build right? so think about it if u blind dominus and u use jade flask i doubt he is able to hit u with his touch of god since its an attack so take that in count :D
Edit: and remember what the build owner said "its not a tank build" and thats right... theres no reason for u to facetank him, u can simply whirling blade away and come back after he uses his smash.
I wish I could dodge all his smash, but desync and lag is an integral part of the game. Often, Dominus does what I call his "Teleport Fist of Doom" where he charges his touch of god and teleports to another location (Sometimes right beside you) instantly dealing a touch of god.
That said, there are only a handful of builds which can actually tank the Palace Dominus' Touch of God face-on, most requiring at least 8k HP/ES. The problem of lag and desync, not just when fighting Dominus, affects a majority of the builds out there except the tanks (That deal relatively low dps).
Note: I've taken a blow to the face with my tank build (With -20% Crit Dmg Taken)by Palace Dom (Map with average mods), with 75% Lightning resistances and about 20k armour. Deals about 6k damage.
Last edited by fuzzybearz on Sep 12, 2014, 8:59:09 PM
about desync well... my desync is not that bad as yours but about fighting bosses well... if your dps is nearly 100k or even 100k+ you can permafreeze most bosses and as i told u :
important to read here : dominus smash is an attack not a spell so if you blind him with BoR and use jade flask he will totally miss all his touch of gods and since your dps is high (70k+) he wont last enough to try a touch of god again or maybe 3 times...
block and spell block is not to facetank is just to help you survive... this build is about evading and knowing how to deal with certain dangers not about going ahead just because you got 75% block chance, well you can do that because most things wont be that dangerous but if for example i see a pack of those giant skeletons with a club there's no way im going to deal with them face to face unless i got my jade flask on and i know they are going to die fast else i would just try to blind them from range then kill them ( of course im refering to high level maps, lvl <75 monsters are easily manageable just by ur dps)
Last edited by BIGLITRO on Sep 12, 2014, 9:57:23 PM
Okay! I might try it out. My aim for the build is to 1. complete 78 map bosses with ease (Main) 2. Atziri or even Uber Atziri. Regarding 78 Palace Dominus, would his touch of god 1 shot me if it miraculously gets pass evasion>dodge>block? (Assuming easy or no mods on the map)
Hi! What BIG is posting is 100% correct. You can get one-shot in any 78 map if you are not careful with the bosses and the mods.
a) Palace - just like BIG said you can evade / dodge / block the smash. But why take the risk??? Use whirling blades to GTFO. This is not a tank build.
But sometimes I admit I like to roll the dice because it is exciting xD, so you may see me not moving for Dominus smash xD.
Ofc we play with a heavily loaded dice that is massively in our favor: 70%+ pure block, 40% dodge, ~50% evasion, Blind. So we can afford to take the risk, but just know that if his smash connects you will ofc be one shot, no way to survive that on this build. Dominus Palace hits about 1 out of every 5 smash for me.
I tested it about 6 months ago and GGG may have changed his accuracy - I don't know but I can test again, but it was roughly 1 out of 5 smashes will go through. Evasion entropy does not really play a role in this fight because the time between his smashes is so long that I am sure the entropy counter has reset so you are literally rolling the dice every time you try to tank a smash. Otherwise you could game the system ofc by seeing if you have any block recovery from 1 smash, then you know for sure the next smash or two are guaranteed to miss. GGG has not given any info on how much time it takes for entropy counter to be reset.
b) Courtyard - this is usually easy. But be careful because you can get one shot with the right mods or if you try and do 6 bosses solo. Best strategy is just to separate them and don't pull them all at the same time. This is also where ranged form of LS really shines because you can kite them from range all day, or if you want you can face them as melee.
As BIG said - these defenses are built so that if you desync or fail to move you have a very high chance of taking no damage. Damage avoidance FTW - it is one of the best defense because it scales extremely well -as content gets harder, this type of defense gets better and more valuable.
I think you can see this if you compare Atziri vs. Uber Atziri - I play the exact same for Uber as I do for regular Atziri because regular is no different than Uber for me on this build except she has more life. All her spells can one-shot me, doesn't matter if Regular or Uber.
Last edited by Ceryneian on Sep 12, 2014, 10:46:29 PM
block and spell block is not to facetank is just to help you survive... this build is about evading and knowing how to deal with certain dangers not about going ahead just because you got 75% block chance, well you can do that because most things wont be that dangerous but if for example i see a pack of those giant skeletons with a club there's no way im going to deal with them face to face unless i got my jade flask on and i know they are going to die fast else i would just try to blind them from range then kill them ( of course im refering to high level maps, lvl <75 monsters are easily manageable just by ur dps)
This is 100% correct, and sometimes I am guilty of facetanking everything because I know I will take no damage due to all these avoidances xD.
Okay! I might try it out. My aim for the build is to 1. complete 78 map bosses with ease (Main) 2. Atziri or even Uber Atziri. Regarding 78 Palace Dominus, would his touch of god 1 shot me if it miraculously gets pass evasion>dodge>block? (Assuming easy or no mods on the map)
Hi! What BIG is posting is 100% correct. You can get one-shot in any 78 map if you are not careful with the bosses and the mods.
a) Palace - just like BIG said you can evade / dodge / block the smash. But why take the risk??? Use whirling blades to GTFO. This is not a tank build.
But sometimes I admit I like to roll the dice because it is exciting xD, so you may see me not moving for Dominus smash xD.
Ofc we play with a heavily loaded dice that is massively in our favor: 70%+ pure block, 40% dodge, ~50% evasion, Blind. So we can afford to take the risk, but just know that if his smash connects you will ofc be one shot, no way to survive that on this build. Dominus Palace hits about 1 out of every 5 smash for me.
I tested it about 6 months ago and GGG may have changed his accuracy - I don't know but I can test again, but it was roughly 1 out of 5 smashes will go through. Evasion entropy does not really play a role in this fight because the time between his smashes is so long that I am sure the entropy counter has reset so you are literally rolling the dice every time you try to tank a smash. Otherwise you could game the system ofc by seeing if you have any block recovery from 1 smash, then you know for sure the next smash or two are guaranteed to miss. GGG has not given any info on how much time it takes for entropy counter to be reset.
b) Courtyard - this is usually easy. But be careful because you can get one shot with the right mods or if you try and do 6 bosses solo. Best strategy is just to separate them and don't pull them all at the same time. This is also where ranged form of LS really shines because you can kite them from range all day, or if you want you can face them as melee.
As BIG said - these defenses are built so that if you desync or fail to move you have a very high chance of taking no damage. Damage avoidance FTW - it is one of the best defense because it scales extremely well -as content gets harder, this type of defense gets better and more valuable.
I think you can see this if you compare Atziri vs. Uber Atziri - I play the exact same for Uber as I do for regular Atziri because regular is no different than Uber for me on this build except she has more life. All her spells can one-shot me, doesn't matter if Regular or Uber.
Thank you for both your responses, I fully understand and appreciate the mechanics of this build's defense. I've seen your video at Palace Dom yoloing and taking a Dom smash to the face, I won't try that though XD. By the way, if I am using a bino dagger and following your defensive tree, do you have any clue on how much DPS I would have as well as life? Just wanted a rough projection. Can I assumr it would be about the same dps as the video you placed with a 200pdps dagger with the offensive tree.
Running this in Beyond and I must say that it has been quite fun so far to level 74. I do not have a Bringer of Rain yet so I am saving to purchase that by doing low level maps and piety runs at the moment. Went for the defense nodes quicker so I am just starting to pick up the dagger nodes/crit nodes. DPS at the moment with Hatred and Herald of Ash is 9k. Hoping to get the dps and survivability up there once I get Bringer of Rain/Rathpith/Stone of Lazhwar(ive got Stone of Lazhwar but with a bad corrupted mod and cannot wear it yet due to resistance issues). Lemme know if you see any glaring mistakes in my gear other than the 3 uniques. I am going to have to switch out pieces once I do get those uniques for resistance sake.
Spoiler
I know I need better evasion gear but for now this is what I run with. I have a Jade Flask up pretty much all the time to make up for it.
Thanks for the great build, I am having a blast with it!
Running this in Beyond and I must say that it has been quite fun so far to level 74. I do not have a Bringer of Rain yet so I am saving to purchase that by doing low level maps and piety runs at the moment. Went for the defense nodes quicker so I am just starting to pick up the dagger nodes/crit nodes. DPS at the moment with Hatred and Herald of Ash is 9k. Hoping to get the dps and survivability up there once I get Bringer of Rain/Rathpith/Stone of Lazhwar(ive got Stone of Lazhwar but with a bad corrupted mod and cannot wear it yet due to resistance issues). Lemme know if you see any glaring mistakes in my gear other than the 3 uniques. I am going to have to switch out pieces once I do get those uniques for resistance sake.
Spoiler
I know I need better evasion gear but for now this is what I run with. I have a Jade Flask up pretty much all the time to make up for it.
Thanks for the great build, I am having a blast with it!
WTB Crit Dagger as well :(
Hey, thanks for trying the build. Your gear looks good, nice belt!
