Making the PoE Leveling Process Even Better: Tier System for Orbs

"

TeeloBrown wrote:

I understand the time=money argument, but I'm very surprised to hear you've used 10 alchs and 5 chaos before level 30. Considering you can clear those levels in ~3-4 hours just with the gear you find on the floor, I think it would be very hard to argue using that many orbs that early on was the best way to use them.

I suppose what your asking in your last post is if I think it's more fun why not just use the orbs for the hell of it. I guess the answer is that by knowing I wasted all those orbs on an item I plan on using for 20 minutes when they could have been rolled on a high level item that I might use for days - the pain I'd feel from doing that knowingly would overshadow any joy. lol :P I don't think I'm alone in that, either.

Well 10 alchs is a lot, but I also have a lot of orbs from event prizes, so I spend them more liberally, but even before I won those orbs I would easily spend about 5 alchs by level 30.

Your second paragraph does make sense, but there is something else to consider: If I am playing a low-level character, and I currently have a crappy magic weapon, I can use a single alchemy orb and be almost guaranteed that it will be an upgrade. However, if I am level 60, and I already have some rare weapons, it might take me 10 alchemy orbs before I make something that is an upgrade.

So it really isn't so bad to use that 1 alchemy for my low level character, and I'll have a lot of fun going out and smashing some faces with the rare I get. But using that 1 alchemy on my high-level character might end up being a waste.

"

Elynole wrote:

There comes a point in development where too much complication is just that, too much. This would be more of a frustration than it would be a significant fun addition to the game.

My thoughts exactly...

"

MorriganGrey wrote:

Sure I could have hoarded my fusings but I wouodn't have had a 4L spirit shield with +1 to fire gems in Ruthless that was mighty handy. It was worth it. There will be more orbs.

Shield and 1handed weapon can only have 3 socket

On topic:

The only orb I'd see this system working for would be divine and exalted.

I (and I suspect many people do the same, especially when levelling a 2nd character) use a lot of orbs on gear to make levelling easier, except I would never use an exalted or divine on low level gear, since they are worth so much. A lower tier of divine or exalted, with an increased drop rate could work, obviously if you dont increase their drop rate, you probably aint gonna find one levelling making the whole idea useless.

3L. Whatever. Nitpicking me serves no purpose. Point was it was a very powerful item for that level and it took most of the small stack of fusings I had to get the sockets linked. I don't regret spending the orbs.

I messed with the other orbs because it was more fun to try them than stash them. The divine didn't improve my item anyway so it's good I got that unlucky roll out of the way! I used the exalted on a particularly well-rolled 4-affix wand that I am still using at lvl 60 because I have yet to find or craft one with more %spell damage. Had I known I'd still be toting that tired wand around at lvl 60 I might have used a second exalted. I've played all the way through Merciless with a 5-affix wand when I could have had six affixes had I used my currency. That hoarding knife cuts both ways.

"

Axebane wrote:

Your second paragraph does make sense, but there is something else to consider: If I am playing a low-level character, and I currently have a crappy magic weapon, I can use a single alchemy orb and be almost guaranteed that it will be an upgrade. However, if I am level 60, and I already have some rare weapons, it might take me 10 alchemy orbs before I make something that is an upgrade.

So it really isn't so bad to use that 1 alchemy for my low level character, and I'll have a lot of fun going out and smashing some faces with the rare I get. But using that 1 alchemy on my high-level character might end up being a waste.

This really is very true, creating a good lvl 60+ item will almost in all cases require multiple chaos and/or alchemy/scourge, while using a single alchemy or chaos orb will in 95% cases give you something better at low levels.

This is without considering low level PvP, even if I am low on orbs I have no problem spending even regals sometimes on my low level characters.

As I said earlier you can hoard every item you get and trade for EXACT value or spend them on your characters directly without spending time trading or time with inventory management.

"

TeeloBrown wrote:

"

Elynole wrote:

There comes a point in development where too much complication is just that, too much. This would be more of a frustration than it would be a significant fun addition to the game.

If GGG was afraid of making the PoE too complicated, they've got other problems to worry about besides some orbs with level caps on them. As for being frustrating, in what way?

It's a complicated game, with the Skill Tree system and all the orbs, working to figure this out puts quite the strain on those new players coming into the game and immediately feeling as though the game is welcoming them with limited experience.

We can take EVE Online as an example. I absolutely love the game, have played it off and on for years, but I'll even admit that the complexity of it changes so frequently and scales out so much that it's literally a science in and of itself to try and play. I've had multiple friends try the game out and stop playing just due to the game feeling unwelcoming, or too far off for them to ever do anything in it. While I know this isn't true, presence is everything - especially true when marketing a product.

That being said, while this one change wouldn't push PoE to such a heightened complexity that it could cause that, multiple changes like this would. Not only would it make inventory management insanely difficult, you'd have to factor in the changes made to the loot drop tables, some way to distinguish these orbs visually, and again adding 5-6 more elements to an already existing system with over a dozen elements to play with.

It'd be unnecessary and cumbersome.

"

Axebane wrote:

I already use orbs early and often. Why?
Also, a brilliant part of PoE's currency system is this: You can find the rarest orbs in the game on a lvl 1 character. In a game with such a strong emphasis on re-playability through a complex passive tree, you want players to not feel like they are wasting their time by re-rolling as a low level character.

Heheh, just yesterday I started a new shadow, and the third zombie I killed in the strand dropped a chaos orb. Go figure.

I don't like the idea.

It would change the entire complexion of the trade system, which isn't even completed yet.

The OP has a point. When I was leveling my first toon, I had no problem wasting chaos and alch right and left. But later, when leveling alts, I realised how wasteful it was to use them on such low level equipment when good high level stuff is much harder to get.

But tiered orbs is not the way to do it. Making orbs more common is a much better solution. Especially Jeweler (when not in merciless, you can't find 6 socket items so jewelers are rare), Fusing (omg need a recipe) and Regal and Exalted (so much lost potential of fun because this is rare).

It's kind of interesting how people saying they aren't hoarding in the first place, which would make the change unnecessary, but then in the same post talk about how they rarely use x and y, and always have a surplus of z.

Really, the best way to visualize the difference a change like this would make on how orbs are used is to look at your own experience, or the twitch streams of other people playing in race events. An orb drops and you immediately go through the thought process of "okay, how can I use this as effectively as possible and as quickly as possible?" and then you use it. Rarely does the orb ever even hit the stash. Sure, right now in the regular leveling process you might burn some Alchemies on your low level gear every once in a while, or even get crazy and Chaos it, but the difference between how you're forced to play these high value orbs and how you'd be able to play low tier orbs is still night and day.

"

MorriganGrey wrote:

I used the exalted on a particularly well-rolled 4-affix wand that I am still using at lvl 60 because I have yet to find or craft one with more %spell damage. Had I known I'd still be toting that tired wand around at lvl 60 I might have used a second exalted. I've played all the way through Merciless with a 5-affix wand when I could have had six affixes had I used my currency. That hoarding knife cuts both ways.

I haven't seen the wand, but doesn't it hurt to know you probably could have bought 2 better wands with that Exalted Orb on the market?

"

Elynole wrote:

...Not only would it make inventory management insanely difficult, you'd have to factor in the changes made to the loot drop tables, some way to distinguish these orbs visually, and again adding 5-6 more elements to an already existing system with over a dozen elements to play with.

It'd be unnecessary and cumbersome.

Firstly, it's agreeable that unnecessary complexity is a bad thing, my question is why specifically you think it's an unnecessary change. To summarize the benefit of it from my perspective, it would make the amazing orb system a much bigger part of the leveling process and as a result make the early stages of the game a lot more fun. Which part of this do you see fault in, and why?

You're argument about it being cumbersome is a good one, but some counter-points:

-Remember that since this system would discourage hoarding, most of the orbs would never reach the stash. In a lot of cases the need to organize the low tier orbs would be pointless because you'd need to use them within the next 30 minutes. Most people would probably keep their tier-relevant orbs in their inventory as their leveling and use them as they go.

-Keep in mind, the real value of a Tier 3 Exalted Orb would be less than that of an Augmentation Orb is now (despite the Exalted Orb potentially being infinitely more valuable to you at that moment in time). Leaving low tier orbs on the floor or tossing them once they become irrelevant would be entirely acceptable. Since the market-value has been stripped of them, they become all about the PERSONAL value they could provide to your character at that point in time, exactly like a really nice low level weapon. Once you're done with a low level weapon you may just vendor it for shards, despite the fact that moments ago it was causing your character to rape face. The extra orbs would provide no more clutter than that low level weapon did.