Remove IR add new keystone, ideas welcome

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Incompetent wrote:

Stacking Accuracy suffers from severe diminishing returns in a way that stacking mana does not.

If that was really a problem you could add a new keystone like this:

Go For the Throat
50% less Accuracy Rating
50% more Critical Strike Chance with Attacks

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

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Incompetent wrote:

Stacking Accuracy suffers from severe diminishing returns in a way that stacking mana does not.

If that was really a problem you could add a new keystone like this:

Go For the Throat
50% less Accuracy Rating
50% more Critical Strike Chance

Ooh I like this idea (though I would change it to "50% more Critical Strike Chance with Attacks" ;) )

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Incompetent wrote:

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

"

Incompetent wrote:

Stacking Accuracy suffers from severe diminishing returns in a way that stacking mana does not.

If that was really a problem you could add a new keystone like this:

Go For the Throat
50% less Accuracy Rating
50% more Critical Strike Chance

Ooh I like this idea (though I would change it to "50% more Critical Strike Chance with Attacks" ;) )

Yeah, attacks, that's what I meant. :p

I sincerely hope, that GGG will not introduce such changes. It would be disastrous for most of "tankier" melee builds. For sure for mine.

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tmaciak wrote:

I sincerely hope, that GGG will not introduce such changes. It would be disastrous for most of "tankier" melee builds. For sure for mine.

In terms of your gear, I have zero sympathy. None. You might hurt temporarily but then you'd get solid armour gear — you know, that actually has the word "armour" on it instead of evasion — and you'd be fine.

In terms of Grace... okay, little nerf there, I'll admit that. But Grace+IR is kind of cheesy anyway.

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

then you'd get solid armour gear — you know, that actually has the word "armour" on it instead of evasion

I trying to find such armor for half a year. In field, not on trade chat. And I haven't found such "armor armor" unfortunately. And I stand in position that I'm not different from majority of players.

But, as I wrote above I hope, that GGG have more common sense than theorycrafters for those forums. If not, it's quite a pity, but I will not be working next half a year to build map viable character to have those efforts invalidated because of some BSes.

You can laugh on such approach but I stand in position, that it's true for majority of players. I'm still waiting for this path of nerfs to finish...

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tmaciak wrote:

I trying to find such armor for half a year.

Just like with dating, the higher you set your standards, the more disappointment you'll find.

I mean, I'm just rerolling a Cleave Duelist and I self-found this one (then tossed some Scraps on it):

Not super amazing or anything, and definitely could use a higher-armour upgrade later, but it's not hard for me to imagine stuff like this dropping at higher levels.

My guess is that it's not that you haven't had decent full-armour gear drop for you, it's that you've had better full-evasion gear drop for you, which realistically would mean you're in the half of the population that happens to. Trade it off or just keep on farmin'.

Stop the BS please scotie. There is nothing wrong at all with how armour and evasion are set up, the thing to tweak is the basis, the formula or a complete overhaul of the system. The part that is balanced and thought out is actually IR and the way the passive tree is set up.

You see the passive tree is one of the things where GGG clearly had a design philosophy. Yes through IR you can get more armour, but you cannot get the better armour build. You get less life (no strength) you have less regen, life leech, life on kill or life on hit (though these nodes need some love and buff and replacement) all of that on the left end of the tree, which also has the most powerfull armour nodes.

Armour is a supplement to the life based character. Best elemental resistance you fin it lower left side of the tree (shield nodes, the +12% and elemental adaptation) everything that and armour character needs.

What you have an issue can only be that armour nodes benefit evasion when using IR, so why not argue to decouple this system?

What it use to be:
500 armour * (increased armour)
530 evasion * (increased armour + increased evasion + increased dex.)

What it is now:
500 armour * (increased armour)
530 evasion * (increased armour + increased evasion)

What you should be advocating instead of the poop:
500 armour * (increased armour + increased evasion + increased dex)
530 evasion * (increased evasion + increased dex)

This means that you need the increased evasion as IR character and dex heavy character to benfit the most from your ER gear. The best scaling happens with amour since they can also grab the increased armour nodes, which will do nothing for evasion. That and since these are at teh strength side of the tree with all the life regen etc. armour is absolutely the best armour, but dexterity based still has an option to switch and maybe get more armour. Just don't forget that due to how armour scales, more armour does not mean better armour. It is the ratio of life regen and total life, vs armour that decides which one is the better armour build.

Anyways if you change it as I suggest you can get more armour from regular armour, just need to grab the nodes for it. I suggest keeping determination working over the entire end value.

Thus a mix will be:
500 AR and 530 ER
52% increased armour
60% increased evasion rating
30% leather and steal
200 dex = 40% increased evasion
Determination
Grace
Iron Reflexes

Total Armour =
[[ARMOUR{500*(1+0.52+0.6+0.3+0.4)}+ER{(530+Grace)*(1+0.6+0.3+0.4)}]]*Determination

There that should fix it completely. Evasion Rating gets added, but doesn't benefit from increased armour nodes, armour does so it scales better and has all the life advantages form the left side and elemental advantages which is what defined life builds and the way they scale vs elemental and physical damage. Something like this stays true to the GGG spirit and beats all the BS IR reflexes nerf crap that has been on teh forums and gotten into their heads.

Now have a good choice as melee dex to choose armour or evasion with IR a choice that matters! Evasion gives more damage mitigation, but doesn't provide something against stuns, when you fight up close, you get hit more often and stuns matter for melee. Thus stun avoidance needs added. Going high armour removes the stun mostly, but you are open to crit and goign the right side you do not have reduced crit damage nodes at all, which is something significant to take into account, if you actually thoroughly tested both systems, further more you have hard access to enduring charges.

A shit load of stuff has to be considered beyond just the: "evasion gear shows higher armour numbers." That is not what defines the armour system, that is not how the tree is set up. You have to consider: (avoid stun, crit reduction nodes, unwavering stance, armour nodes, how crit roll vs evasion, where are the endurance charges, life leech, life regen etc. etc.)

Ongoing rant about player feedback and the status or decline of PoE (in what the game can be, content wise it is expanding):

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

Trade it off or just keep on farmin'

Considering, that I came here from D3 in looking for aRPG, which is not trade simulator, it's like you wrote "fu** you".

But discussing, that there is no difference in this aspect between D3 and PoE is outside the subject of this topic.

And yes, I was dropped with many almost-interesting-armors (which are in 1-gcp-each part of my shop), but although I can do 4L quite cheaply, to invest currency and make even 5L on chest you have to have really good armor. And such I did not dropped. And I need 5L, for the reasons I skip, because discussing mana nonsense is also outside the subject of this topic.

But anyway, as I wrote, I hope that GGG have enough common sense to leave is as is. Your arguments did not convinced me in any aspect.

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Ozgwald wrote:

Thus a mix will be:
500 AR and 530 ER
52% increased armour
60% increased evasion rating
30% leather and steal
200 dex = 40% increased evasion
Determination
Grace
Iron Reflexes

Total Armour =
[[ARMOUR{500*(1+0.52+0.6+0.3+0.4)}+ER{(530+Grace)*(1+0.6+0.3+0.4)}]]*Determination

You forget Inner Force bonus counting TWICE. Once for Grace, once for Determination, effectivvely givin 1.18 * 1.18 more armour.