Remove IR add new keystone, ideas welcome

Hi Mark_GGG

So lets get some ideas on what a dex character needs more then defense because that is what IR did contrary to what has been written or suggested by Dev's:

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It is a keystone which is specifically designed for dex users and dex hybrids who do not want to use dex defensively. The defence of dex is and always has been evasion. Choosing IR is saying that you want a dex-focused character which doesn't use the dex defence -it's perfectly logical that it shouldn't be getting bonuses to a non-dex defense from dex, especially when you consider that armour doesn't get any bonus from any attribute, despite being the strength defence.

I feel compelled to suggest a new keystone that would have better synergy with its current location: A keystone that would allow players using 2h weapons to be able to block at the cost of only being able to wear evasion gear. Who needs more def when you have a chance to block whilst wielding a 2h weapon besides a staff which is to faraway for a dex oriented character. Also lets keep in mind what is around where IR is lots of block nodes and weapon nodes. The downside of this keystone would be great too since it isn't a downside to dex oriented while maintaining enough of a ''flavor'' that str oriented characters can't abuse this ability unlike IR.

Blocking and evasion go hand in hand think about it, a dex evasion oriented character would have better viability with the chance to block while wielding a 2h weapon, to me that sounds like better chances for survival, since dex characters aren't really supposed to go the path of life...

Cheers, thanks for reading and perhaps suggesting other keystone ideas to replace IR and give dex oriented characters a more worthwhile ability to survive the rigors of melee:)

That post of Mark's, when read out of context, does make it seem like the motivating factor for the change to IR was to do with dex and how it's logical that dex shouldn't increase IR armour. If that actually had much at all to do with GGG's decision to nerf IR, then we should all be horrified.

However, if you read it in context, you'll notice it's in reply to a specific question about how IR fits into the dex tree from an aesthetic point of view. It wasn't actually nerfed for that reason.

I imagine it was nerfed because IR was too powerful, and GGG thinks accuracy is much more powerful than most of the players do, so doesn't think dex is underpowered.

Hi

STR gives life,INT gives mana, DEX gives acc... seems weak since life keeps you alive and mana lets a player use spells unless they use BM then of course they go for more str... DEX's survivability is not on par with the rest; the increased defense from IR was what allowed a DEX oriented character to at least get more defence since acc don't do anyone no good unless your hitting something even then one hit and its over if your character is mostly DEX...

cheers

Dex is a plain weak stat used only for support gem reqs by most builds. It needs a buff but that can be its own thread.

IR on the other hand is an interesting idea that I think would be best changed into being that it allows you to use the stats of your STR or DEX to meet the requirements of gear and gems. So a STR character can take IR to use evasion gear and dex gems without needing as much dex, a dex char can take it to equip armour gear and gems without having to grab lots of str if they already came from the dex area.

Perhaps having the % bonuses of armour apply to evasion and the bonuses to evasion apply to armour, to add a little more to the keystone, but otherwise I think that would be enough to keep the general theme of the keystone while really keeping it from being the "more, better and easier to acquire armour" keystone

Hi

Interesting point/idea Wooser69.

I think though that if that were to occur IR might be more powerful instead of less.

cheers

With no base conversion grace and determination would no longer stack, you wouldn't simply double the amount of gear you can use if going armour and the keystone would also allow for hybrids to benefit. I don't think it would be stronger than it is now. Way I see it, a keystone should allow for more builds, not just make one better, at least not without a global downside.

Maybe only have str/dex share requirements for armour instead of gems too. But otherwise it's all kind of necessary in order to allow a character going deep into the dex area to still use armour as a mechanic while being able to still support their build with passives in the dex tree.

As things are now the keystone is for str based armour users who can afford to stretch a little into the dex area to suddenly get way more gear options and ~1000 extra base armour from grace. It's not really an interesting keystone, just a pure and very large upgrade for str characters.

Mark I would like a respec:

http://www.pathofexile.com/passive-skill-tree/AAAAAgQAAAYD2wUtDkgOrRGWEdUVIBX2Fr8XHRjbG_ohYCQ8Jd8mlSepKaUqTSzpMgk2e0CgQ5xD0kd-SVFKfVM1U99VS1YtV5dY21ptW69gQWBLYeJieWNwZU1noG0ZbWxte25pcFJyu3TtdPF673_Ggh6E2YTvh3aH24w2k_ybLZuDm7WeuaKjpBmnNKdcq8Wsf67PtUi-p8APwFHB88M6xLjKSstB0O7STdX42wvdDeOE647vTu_j8Xbz6vej_MU=

Totally not op, just decent, different and fun. Pre-patch 0.11 it was amazing, than %phys melee nodes got buffed and since no changes to ats, melee based on ats had no buff (also no buff to twin terrors). Still fun in 0.11 till the "soul axe" got added, which creates all the chill and the mana magic, without the sacrifices this build makes for it. Worked nice with IR or OG, the IR recently got completely trashed, yes the impact is that heavy. Guess it is safer to play "mainstream" got to watch some Kripp streams, silly me.

Also since soul taker got added to the game, can you make it so arctic armour actually chills melee attackers, just the minimal, right now it chills pretty much nothing? Would be great that the huge gear investment, build investment (mana nodes, EB) doesn't get invalidated by a single item?

Also since IR hasn't been op at all and I lost most benefit from dex a respec would be nice, since you killed the IR version of my build this patch? Or do you have plans to give dex +5 life per 10 points to compensate the creative builds using IR? My melee would be interested to know.

Also perhaps you could tell me which players have had an influence on your decision and perhaps you could see if they did comparable builds such as I am running and whether their opinion should matter? I like to note that comparing the armour formula vs the evasion formula, you quickly notice that evasion scales better, so you trade of a better defense for a worse.

The only reason to make the decision is because determination exists and gives %more, with or without grace, or because you couldn't get a meaningful armour/ evasion level combined and had to opt for one or the other.

Good to know all those lightning arrow rangers had such a decisive influence on the game outcome, will the rest now please get their respec, so you can actually at least play your character? I already haven;t gotten an upgrade for over months, but I still lose out for more than 2k armour, if I actually had the gear I wanted I do lose 7k armour... wasn't 0.11 supposed to make armour more meaningful? How does the huge armour loss work out considering the goals you had set for the 0.11 patch?

(Yes I am unhappy, I am unhappy that the bad ideas seem to make it through because the IR whine did come from the playerbase)

Hi Mark_GGG

Thanks and sorry if I took what you typed out of context but what you wrote doesn't make sense to me, IR is completely defensive and when you make a melee oriented dex character IR is the best. This keystone still needs to be sorted out as it is it is completely useless to dex characters and while playing POE I still meet marauders going to IR to abuse this supposedly ''powerful'' node made more so by this nerf. Think of it this way what if there was a keystone that added more damage at the cost of gaining life each str node would any marauder take it?

I still suggest removing IR for the forge and adding a new keystone which better defines duelists such as Parrying, dagger/sword nodes(together) no point in the claw node, 2h blocking which could only be used if player wears pure evasion gear.

Try these ideas out Mark IR is not the ''way'', people are still doing the same thing, now though it is more str oriented characters over dex characters...

cheers

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Finkenstein wrote:

Hi Mark_GGG

Thanks and sorry if I took what you typed out of context but what you wrote doesn't make sense to me, IR is completely defensive and when you make a melee oriented dex character IR is the best. This keystone still needs to be sorted out as it is it is completely useless to dex characters and while playing POE I still meet marauders going to IR to abuse this supposedly ''powerful'' node made more so by this nerf. Think of it this way what if there was a keystone that added more damage at the cost of gaining life each str node would any marauder take it?

I still suggest removing IR for the forge and adding a new keystone which better defines duelists such as Parrying, dagger/sword nodes(together) no point in the claw node, 2h blocking which could only be used if player wears pure evasion gear.

Try these ideas out Mark IR is not the ''way'', people are still doing the same thing, now though it is more str oriented characters over dex characters...

cheers

"Completely useless to Dex characters" is subjective.

Taking IR means you now have baseline DR. And you can still benefit from Blind (60+% DR and 75% EV? Yes please) at full effectiveness. It also means the BEST AR armour in game is hybrid EV/AR (Double AR rolls). IR changes your defense type. That's what it's supposed to do, that's what it does. It basically reads "EV on armour is now Armour".

Str characters are diots if they're taking IR. Really. EV+AR is more effective than AR overall. There are better uses for those points. Unless they're getting US (no idea why they would if tehy're stacking damage redution).