Ways to Remove High-end Items from the Game (To Curb Item Inflation)

as long as they keep there promise that rares will be the best items i dont see a problem with massig to many supergood items that so many ppl want exactly that way.

I still remember the good times where Rares where the best items in D2 befor the damn addon, it was realy hard to get the right items for ur character.
THese problems u fear will only show up if uniques are to good and to easy farmed through boss runs.
I dont think rares will mass up that fast, considering the steady new content updates over the time, i dont see a problem comming aslong as uniques wont be the top tier items.

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Narfi wrote:

as long as they keep there promise that rares will be the best items i dont see a problem with massig to many supergood items that so many ppl want exactly that way.

I still remember the good times where Rares where the best items in D2 befor the damn addon, it was realy hard to get the right items for ur character.
THese problems u fear will only show up if uniques are to good and to easy farmed through boss runs.
I dont think rares will mass up that fast, considering the steady new content updates over the time, i dont see a problem comming aslong as uniques wont be the top tier items.

Yes, this is right. Uniques are rarely the best items. Usually because unique items have more static stats attached to them, which eliminates the possibility of getting something good for your particular build. Say you find a unique with

+10 str
+30 Z damage
+ % block

You're a barbarian type, no need for block. So you find a green with.

+7 str
+28 Z damage
(gem slot)

Now with the gem slot you can add, say, +1 to Y skill. And you love the hell out of Y skill, and, in fact, it's the best skill of your class.

Clearly the green is better. But, the stats on it are random. You can find another green with:

+12 str
+ 20 Z damage
(gem slot)

Now, that item for you is far superior because you invest heavily into +Str. However, to me the 1st item is better because I want more Z damage.

Now, lets say you can get 4 skill bonuses and a gem slot. Or, 1 bonus and 3 gem slots... do the math. The possibilities huge, and the amount of min/maxing between players further limits the odds of their being "best" items.

This is why, item inflation is a non issue.

Usually all possibilities in games break down into min/max of derived values... usually attacking, defense, or misc. which is game dependent.

Even given a system of theoretically infinite possibilities, there are still 'best' combinations, even if there are 3 types of 'best' depending on which derived characteristic you optimize for.

Obviously that can be multiplied by the number of classes in some cases. It might seem like a lot, but in practice it's often not.

Perhaps this game can do that differently... I don't know until I play it.

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Wittgenstein wrote:

This is why, item inflation is a non issue.

You really don't understand the issue at all. No point trying to explain it again because you obviously didn't comprehend previous posts in the thread.

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Perhaps this game can do that differently... I don't know until I play it.

Sorry zeto, but I think that you're making too many of assumptions just let the game reveal itself.

Take a step back realize that between the variable skill tree, gems socket arrangement, different play styles, and items types there will be many different styles. There are many more variables in this game then previous ARG's so relax.

Well it's like I said, I'll know better when I see it. The best the players can do at this point is speculate.

I came here and am simply reporting what I've seen elsewhere, even in systems that have large variability.

The best systems used a combination of degradation and crafting. Additionally the best economic systems I've seen didn't rely on money either. I played an economics based game called Goonzu for quite a while and in that game creatures didn't drop gold (only crafting materials,) and items had expiration timers... the system worked really well. The absolute top items however didn't expire, and they severely hurt the overall system.

It's just something I've observed in every game I've ever played... so I reported it here. I've also done extensive development of systems very similar to those being attempted by this team. The mere fact that they have a dev blog that talks about these decisions was a huge factor for me to join here and contribute, because I respect what they are trying to do and their intelligence.

Based on what I've read from their team, I have faith that they will ultimately choose a system that both right for their game, and is as best an elegant solution as they can muster... which is what they've done with other systems: they identified a problem, how the problem propagates, and proposed an alternative fix for it even if it's in direct opposition to common implementation.

I really respect the devs for their blog and choices thus far... I hope it turns out well no matter what, and in either case we won't see the outcome for at least a year or more even if the chosen system fails.

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Fluffy wrote:

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Wittgenstein wrote:

This is why, item inflation is a non issue.

You really don't understand the issue at all. No point trying to explain it again because you obviously didn't comprehend previous posts in the thread.

Exactly right Fluffy! I don't understand this topic at all, I've asked for examples of other games that suffer from the problem this thread is attempting to address (only a hypothetical problem that is) and nobody was able to provide me one. Someone mentioned EVE earlier, but as that game is completley different from this one, I found little value in the comparison.

Someone else brought up D2. But, since the best items in the game are often paid for (with real money) then obviously an overabundance of "l33t lewtz" isn't a problem D2 is suffering from.

Perhaps Fluffy, you could enlighten me.

Basically any game ever made that doesn't bind all good loot. You don't have to think so, but it is a problem in every game that allows trading of permanent great items.

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Wittgenstein wrote:

Someone else brought up D2. But, since the best items in the game are often paid for (with real money) then obviously an overabundance of "l33t lewtz" isn't a problem D2 is suffering from.

Perhaps Fluffy, you could enlighten me.

Only nubs and some PvPers play D2 off ladder. D2 item quality inflation ruins gameplay and it is fixed by occasionally throwing all the items and players into the junk non-ladder world and starting again. The ladder is a side line, there is no reason a competitive ladder couldn't start at any time in the existing game world. It is a smokescreen to hide the need to flush a failing game world down the toilet.

The cash shop argument is lol. That some people suck and prefer to pay someone else to play the game for them is irrelevant. However, the "overabundance of "l33t lewtz"" is what allows cash item shops to exist. The players (or more likely bots) providing their stock have far more "l33t lewtz" drop than they can use. An excess which can be sold (or given) to people who don't play the game to get their own items.

If players and bots had equipment which wore out at about the same rate it drops if cash shops existed at all their stock would be far less "l33t" and more expensive.

In addition to previosly mentioned RPGs (which Wittegstein refuses to see) with abundance of high-end items here is another example:

Sacred (all versions)

But well, Wittegstein, if you are so stubborn can you please mention games, which DO NOT suffer from such problem, except EVE (which I btw mentioned as an example of a stable economics) and disputed D2:LOD?