Looting -- The official thread for discussing the loot system. Updated 18th March, 2013.

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Ten_of_Swords wrote:

Games by their very definition are set ups for conflict that evoke emotions, NOT to make everyone happy, winners and losers based on skill are often primary ingredients. FUN is overcoming obstacles NOT the lack of obstacles.

In a PvE game players are not obstacles. Monsters are. If, instead, the game were explicitly designed for PvP -- which it isn't -- then you'd certainly have a point. But at the same time, players would be going in expecting to fight against one another. That's not the expectation in this game. Nor is it a mandatory requisite to succeed; as players can and do play cooperatively in multiplayer, should they so choose to do so.

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Giving people the choice to opt out of a difficult game mechanic is the dumbest thing GGG could possibly do. I’m still 100% convinced.

There's nothing "difficult" about the game mechanic. Just annoying. Giving players the option of being able to play together without risking getting annoyed by ninja looters will be the best thing that ever happened to this game since launch day.

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Instanced loot WAS the fatal flaw in D3, and the reason why it will never compare to D2.

D3 has tremendous, intrinsic design issues, most of which have nothing to do with its loot system. On the other hand, D3 has nothing to do with this thread.

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When I said I played D2 for ten years what I meant was that every reset I would go back and play HC ladders, either until my character died or I got bored and sick of the rune dupes (usually before hitting lv 92-93) Why? Why go back to such an old game when there are thousands of others to choose from?

Because it was in fact, still goddamn fun.

I agree. D2 is fun. Playing D2 is about seeking fun, just as we would with any game. That's what games are for.

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Every season I would see old acquaintances appearing on my friends list and some of the best gaming around would ensue. PoE for many of us has captured what D2 had, and more. I would argue that ultimately it was about loot, the loot competition, and friendly pacts to share loot and beat the system.

Whereas, I felt it was about loot *collection*, achieving goals, and cooperative play. FFA loot in D2 was less about pitting players against each other and more about adventuring within the scope of the game environment, limited by the of technology of the time.

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So what is fun? What is this ‘evoking of emotions’? First, you need to understand something important. CONTRAST: Simply put, gain is not rewarding unless there is also loss or the potential of loss. Defeating a difficult foe means nothing unless there was some risk involved; the same principal applies to loot. These things cannot be separated and still have the same value. (also the same in xp loss/ character death mechanics)

These things must necessarily be separate, as demonstrated by the simple and obvious fact that players can play solo. Indeed, according to the devs, this game was ORIGINALLY DESIGNED around solo play; multi-player was thrown in afterward (much like Diablo 1, in point of fact). In solo play, there is no risk involved as pertains to loot. Everything that drops, every single item on the floor, is yours. All you risk is your Internet connection severing before you click on it. :p

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If something falls for someone else and everyone is off screen I might feel apprehensive about taking it. I think what if they come back for it and see me grabbing something they needed? I ‘feel’ apprehension.

What you feel in fact is guilt, as you've been found out as a ninja looter. This, and this alone, distinguishes you from most of your thieving compatriots, the majority if which not only experience no guilt whatsoever, but in fact delight in the anguish they inflict on the players that they're stealing from.

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Lets say a rare 2h mace falls, and I’m the only melee in the party and that’s my chosen weapon but someone else got it? I am curious what it was, I ask “can you show me that 2h?” - I might be ‘angry’ they won’t show me, I might be ‘happy’ if they drop it, I might be ‘jealous’ of they show me but say they will keep it.

None of which speaks at all toward the underlying fact of the matter: it's not your mace. It's theirs. Perhaps they'll offer it to you. Perhaps they won't. Perhaps they'll take a screenshot of themselves throwing the mace away and email it to you out of spite. Who knows? But more importantly: who cares? It's their mace, to do with as they please.

THAT is the baseline model of APRGs: you kill monsters, you earn loot. Nowhere in PoE are you able to rummage around in another player's inventory. Nowhere in PoE are you able to rummage around in another player's stash. Nowhere in PoE are you able to murder another player and take his equipment off of his warm, steaming corpse. This is not a PvP game. Why, then, is there still this one, lingering, festering feature of PvP gaming glued unceremoniously to this game's underbelly? There is no reason. And thus, this cancerous tumor will be at last excised.

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There are literally dozens of other examples for situations like these that make a person ‘feel’ emotions – some good and some bad, all revolving around LOOT. All of it eliminated by this ‘no-tension’ or NON-FFA mode! This ‘it’ is in fact game immersion we are talking about, the player ‘feels’ what the character experiences and much if not all of it will be lost when every public game uses this mode.

I don't feel what my character experiences. This is because my character doesn't "experience" anything. He's blips on a screen, a file on someone's hard drive. I'm a real person. He doesn't have experiences; I do. And I'd like my game experience to be pleasant, thank you very much.

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It seems to me that many players are afraid of these negative possibilities and want to eliminate it; they are victims of fear itself. Now we are all going to have to suffer the game changing modifications because some people ‘just won’t try it’ – yes you know who you are. You won’t play the game the way it was designed and now it has to change because of… I’m sorry there is no other way to put it, I know it’s an awful word, but it’s true. BABIES.

Keep using that word, please. The more you mock and ridicule your would-be victims, the stronger our cause becomes. Next, tell us how this thread is full of stupid, and how none, none of our arguments make any sense or hold any merit. Stay on script.

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What PoE needs is a wading pool for people to learn and make the transition then, not a sweeping change affecting all games default, HC and races.

For what must be the millionth time, we're not campaigning for the default game mode to change. All we'd like is the option to avoid bullies, ninja looters and abusers. You know, people like you.

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So everyone knows about pacts where you make friends and agree to share loot or at least not compete with each other’s timers? Friendships are forged this way. (notice they get to do so by agreement, not by selecting ‘options’ when making a game and forcing it on anyone who joins) I’m still in touch with people I met over ten years ago because of FFA loot in D2. However, it happens all the time and often without words and even among strangers:

I don't make friends by leaving my wallet on the table and seeing who steals it. Nor do I play games in order to expose myself to similar immaturity and idiocy. Nor is anyone seeking to force you play in a particular game mode (unlike you).

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I’m playing in the one week HC race and last night I was running with a group that was just awesome... {snip}

Great story, bro. Would you like all of us to regale you with the tales of the dozens of times that we've had the reverse scenario occur?

In any event, it's irrelevant; you can continue to regale us with delightful tales of players all fumbling over one another for loot, or not, even after the devs introduce the new game play option.

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Vooodu wrote:

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mobutu wrote:

These ffa-haters are so pathetic, they whine soo much now that the dev team decided to give loot options and they repeat the same old utter and completely irrational crap from hundreds page ago.
Shallow broken records.

Fixed... To make more sense.



Is this thread even about loot anymore? Seems to me this is where people come to bitch about me now. Cause im such a terrible person.

I eat babies and kick puppys.. Discuss.

I don't think it has been about loot since the manifesto came out stating that there would be looting options. Since then it has mostly been you (and your alt accounts) spewing derogatory comments at people who wanted loot options in the first place while they point out your hypocrisy and general worthlessness as a human being.

Carry on.

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Vooodu wrote:

Is this thread even about loot anymore?

How would you know? You only ever post the same things over and over from this short list:

- Everybody who hates FFA loot is a crybaby.
- This thread is full of stupid.
- Nothing that anti-FFA players say in this thread makes any sense.

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Seems to me this is where people come to bitch about me now. Cause im such a terrible person.

Yes, Vooodu it's all about you. Keep on dancing.

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Vooodu wrote:

Please explain how any of that garbage you posted has anything to do with you getting "Bullied" over freakin loot drops...

Did you even bother to read the article? No, of course not:

"Subtler emotionally abusive tactics include insults, putdowns, arbitrary and unpredictable inconsistency, and gaslighting (the denial that previous abusive incidents occurred). Modern technology has led to new forms of abuse, by text messaging and online cyber-bullying."

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So now im a bully? :D. CooooOOOol. Funny, i've never ever been called a bully in my entire life. But, now that some kid with serious mental issues tells me im a bully on some forum thread about loot drops in a ARPG. Well, that must be seriously TRUE...

Please, don't let me discourage you. Keep right at it. The more you exhibit bullying behavior, the more the devs will be exposed to it, and the faster we'll get what we want -- to get the hell away from you.

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And really... Loot was stolen? So, ffa drops make you feel as if loot has been stolen from you and you think this is bullying... And you think im the one with the issues?

You dare not admit it to yourself, of course. Cowardice is the bully's hallmark.

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Please tell me more. Because the more you type the more i realise im a total idiot for even carrying on this conversation with someone as looney as you.

We agree on one thing, anyway.

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Id rather be a 'dancing monkey' than a dog lickin his own ass complaining about why his tounge smells like a dog shit constantly. I guess you could say that that dog got bullied by his own ass. Ass....

Dance on, my dancing monkey. Go, Vooodu, go!

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MUST STOP READING THIS THREAD.... Id block myself if i could.. lmao.

But you can't, Vooodu. You can't tear yourself away. You don't DARE ADMIT to yourself that your act of desperation has not only been a colossal failure, but has actually had the REVERSE of its intended effect.

You expected to mock, ridicule, and shame the posters on this thread to the point that they stop posting. Thus dominating the thread, you and your ilk could then merrily lie all day along about how wonderful the current system is, because otherwise, wouldn't there be someone on this thread complaining about it?

Instead, you've discovered that the people posting on this thread WILL NOT be silenced by the likes of you. Worse still, the devs, to your chagrin, have sided with US, and not with you. And it's not just because you've been unable to chase us away, Vooodu. That's not the full extent of your failure. It's because of your behavior, your demonstration of the true, monstrous nature of the ninja looter, the bully, the abuser that the current loot system caters to and enables.

THAT is the truth that you WILL NOT allow yourself to accept. And so you're stuck here, in this vicious cycle, spewing the same mindless sewage, day in and day out, forever.

And it makes me happy beyond description to witness. Not merely your humiliation; that's just a side benefit. But knowing that EACH and EVERY time that you drool on this thread, that's a opportunity for a dev to read your post, sit back, and think. THAT warms the cockles of my heart in a way that you could never possibly envision.

Dance faster, my winged monkey. DANCE!

As if i read any of the crap. :D. You gotta be crazy if you think i would.


Is it time for your meds yet? Or did you stop talking to your shrink because you thought he was bullying you....lmao.


Keep going..Wack job. KooOoo KOoooOOo, KooOOooo kOoOOOOo!

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Vooodu wrote:

As if i read any of the crap. :D. You gotta be crazy if you think i would.

Of course not. But the posts aren't for you, anyway.

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Is it time for your meds yet? Or did you stop talking to your shrink because you thought he was bullying you....lmao.

Still obsessed with shrinkage? Stop taking so many cold showers.

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Keep going..Wack job. KooOoo KOoooOOo, KooOOooo kOoOOOOo!

Dance, monkey, dance! Go, Vooodu, go!

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Xaxyx wrote:

Still obsessed with shrinkage? Stop taking so many cold showers.

I guess your mother told you about my little problem... But its not really my fualt.

Hell, even a JUMBO 747 looks small when its flying into the grand canyon.





Now, feed me more wacko...Keep going.. KooOoo KOoooOOo, KooOOooo kOoOOOOo!

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Vooodu wrote:

I guess your mother told you about my little problem... But its not really my fualt.

One out of five, they say.

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Hell, even a JUMBO 747 looks small when its flying into the grand canyon.

Much like the point, flying between your ears.

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Now, feed me more wacko...Keep going.. KooOoo KOoooOOo, KooOOooo kOoOOOOo!

Dance, monkey, dance! Go, Vooodu, go!

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Xaxyx wrote:

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Vooodu wrote:

As if i read any of the crap. :D. You gotta be crazy if you think i would.

Of course not. But the posts aren't for you, anyway.

KOoooOoo KooOOOoooO!


So, who are you talking to then... Must be that invisible dancing monkey you keep going on about.

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Vooodu wrote:

So, who are you talking to then... Must be that invisible dancing monkey you keep going on about.

Why, the lurkers, naturally. The people who read this thread and try to decide for themselves which side of this debate is the more reasonable, which side is the more sensible, the more practical. We post reasoned analyses. You respond by flinging your poo. The conclusion is obvious.