Looting -- The official thread for discussing the loot system. Updated 18th March, 2013.

"

bkboggy wrote:

I wouldn't want to be restricted to this counter system if I'm killing stuff by myself, eventhough I'm in a party.

Than switch to FFA.

Problem, though:

Not all rare (or magical, or even normal) items are created equal, thanks to the variety of basic item types - not in trade value, and not in personal value.
Three to four magic items apiece? Great!
Three to four huge two-handed weapons you'll never use, that happen to have a few paltry enchantments? Not so much.
Especially when they
(1) take up room that could otherwise be used for items you'd actually want and
(2) might have been picked up only because your partner wanted them.

Also, what happens when one player's inventory becomes full? Do they get cut out of the tally, or does it save up until they clear out some room (or is there some other methodology entirely)? There are issues with either direction.

Dice rolling for every random piece of loot that drops? Sounds like it would ruin the pace of the game and quickly become tedious.

In my opinion, dice rolling is appropriate only in games with fixed loot tables where each player is looking for a specific item.

Keeping track of multiple counters for each player within each party so they can take turns claiming loot is a lot of extra computation and additional diplomacy after every single drop. The instanced loot style already mentioned accomplishes the same goal in a manner which does not grind the game to a halt.

Wow has fixed loot tables, not randomly generated items. As I already mentioned, players know ahead of time exactly what items are available and which they are looking for. Often, people agree ahead of time which items will go to which player or set of players to avoid the pile of drama that was Diablo 2-style looting.

With unidentified random items, people are far more likely to roll on every base item they can use because there is no way, initially, to tell what any given item is. With the monetary items and gems which are equally valuable to all classes, people would almost certainly roll on every single drop. This would, in effect, be the same as separate loot for each player except you now have to push an extra button to roll for the item. To me, that is a completely unnecessary layer which serves no purpose other than adding one more step before a separate loot implementation.

As for helping out someone on purpose, all items can still be traded or dropped on the ground, so you can easily give someone something to help them out without adding unneeded complexity or opening the door to griefing.

No matter the looting system, if you are playing with a group of friends who work well together, the loot will not be an issue. Looting system dynamics exist to arbitrate situations among random people who do not fully trust each other and suggesting people should not play a game without a pre-built group of friends is unrealistic. More to the point, without adequate arbitration, people will be far less likely to give each other a chance in a group and will tend not to make friends within the game.

A successful looting system should be simple and encourage group play without encouraging either griefing or cheating. To me, the ever more complicated systems being suggested do not seem to improve upon the simple ones already mentioned.

If an object falls down from a monster closer to another player is not so much a problem. I understand that it's just luck and that in an other ocasion I will be lucky. I think that adding an allocation time to the objects is redundant as complicates something that for its own is luck. Complicates too much the game.

I still think that it's best to allow parties to choose from a few options. It shouldn't be too hard to do from a development perspective I imagine. It means you can have normal items be free for all and maybe if you do a boss run allocate it a bit better.

"

Skivverus wrote:

Problem, though:

Not all rare (or magical, or even normal) items are created equal, thanks to the variety of basic item types - not in trade value, and not in personal value.
Three to four magic items apiece? Great!
Three to four huge two-handed weapons you'll never use, that happen to have a few paltry enchantments? Not so much.
Especially when they
(1) take up room that could otherwise be used for items you'd actually want and
(2) might have been picked up only because your partner wanted them.

Also, what happens when one player's inventory becomes full? Do they get cut out of the tally, or does it save up until they clear out some room (or is there some other methodology entirely)? There are issues with either direction.

What normaly happens when you try to pick up an item and there's no room for it in your inventory? The same would happen with suggested system - item jumps into the air, and appropriate sound is played. Player opens inventory, drops some garbage to make room for new item, and game puts it into his inventory automaticaly.

Any item dropped from inventory becomes FFA, and does not affect counters in any way. Thus, if item ended in your inventory, and you don't need it, just drop it. Other player will pick it up, and that's it. Or if there are 2+ players that would want it, chose one of them and trade him. Or make them fight over it :o))

"

tormenta wrote:

Any item dropped from inventory becomes FFA, and does not affect counters in any way. Thus, if item ended in your inventory, and you don't need it, just drop it. Other player will pick it up, and that's it. Or if there are 2+ players that would want it, chose one of them and trade him. Or make them fight over it :o))

A useful clarification.

Still, taking the time to open your inventory and clean out the junk takes a couple seconds and a significant amount of attention which could otherwise be devoted to combat; this opens the door for (possibly inadvertent) griefing when one player in the party decides to pick up absolutely everything, whether anyone wants it or not.


For the full inventory situation, consider the following scenario:

(1) suppose the player (let's call him "Ed") picking up the item has room, but their party mate (called "Jess"), who would be "due" to get the item, does not.
Does Ed get the item, or does the item not get picked up until Jess clears some room?

This is the system for when playing with random players. If such a player refuses to stop picking every shit that drops, or anything else, you simply quit that party. In any case, what happens inbetween players is up to players. What this loot systems does, and the only thing it does, is making sure amount of items based on a type is shared as equaly as possible.

(1) It's the same as Jess had room, got item and wanna keep it - item stays on the ground, and Jess keeps priority on it indefinitely. There is nothing Ed can do about it except ask Jess to do something - make room in her Inventory by dropping some items, go to town and put items from Inventory to Stash, or just quit party if she refuses to cooperate in some way.

Have players set up their own options like in other MMOs (From the Party Menu): Need/Want/Ignore, Round Robin... whatever else.

In Dungeon Hunters (PSN) it is always Round Robin Style, but you can do a "Drop" or "Give", "Drops" can be picked up by anyone, whereas "Gives" are special Color-boardered according to the player they are meant for when they hit the ground.