Looting -- The official thread for discussing the loot system. Updated 18th March, 2013.

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Faerie_Storm wrote:

This makes me think of blue and Reds in UO, and really at least in the classic UO, if someone took your loot they would go grey and you could attack them without risk of getting a murder count, if you killed them they got it back, but if not you likely lost everything you were carrying. However if you killed them you got your loot back.

Having a corner to hide when someone can kill you for your stuff is good. That's why Cut-throat league isn't the default. But when you just "lose" items that aren't your yet anyways? I don't see this as an issue. The real issue is that someone who clicks on your item a few seconds before the timer ends can pick it up because the click takes a few seconds to register. This needs to be made instantaneous so that you have to click on an item after the timer is over to grab someone else's item. I like the Cut-throat feel, I can be nice and let people get there items, to take them if they aren't paying attention. I get the choice, so more player freedom. Similarly People can do the same to me. Player freedom, not arbitrary restrictions.

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Dinin wrote:

The people that are saying only FFA should be in the game should go and install and play through D2 again on bnet right now.

The exact same problems FFA causes for D2 will be in POE.

The first one being that you are stuck in specific builds/classes if you actually want to get loot. For D2 your first character is pretty much mandatory to be a Sorc (Due to high mobility from teleport) if you actually want to get items in any timely manner. I feel that it will be similar in POE where if you want to play public games and competitively get loot you are required to have a high mobility and durable build.

The second thing is bots, namely pick-it bots. If you really think 18 people http://www.grindinggear.com/?page=staff (Who most only have Bachelors and half of them are artists and other misc positions) can come up with some sophisticated anti-bot code you are delusional. The current loot system encourages using scripts/bots to parse and grab loot from other players. Something as simple as having loot options other then FFA would put a complete halt to pick-it bots in public games. Sure this doesn't stop all botting, but it would stop the ones that are more damaging to the game (the ones in public games).

If you need any proof of these problems, again just log onto D2 bnet and join a public game, 99% of them are going to be bots or people using pick-it.

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wrathmar wrote:

There are many other options to improve the loot system without going full instanced. Here are many options to improve the current timer.

Spoiler

1.Add 2-3 seconds to the base timer while reducing the max distance timer by 1 second. This change would benefit tanks and melee DPS builds more. Players at max range will still see an additional 1-2 seconds for loot. This change will provide all players a greater time to react while not impacting overall pace of looting.

2.Adjust the timer length based upon the rarity of the monster which dropped the item. White monsters and chests keep the current timer. Blue monsters increase base timer by 2 seconds, Rare by 3 seconds, Unique bosses should have permanently assigned loot. This will help with the frustration after boss/rare battles where multiple items drop and specific builds (tank) are only able to grab one item while some builds (minion) are able to grab more.

3.Adjust the timer based upon how many surviving monsters are within 50’ of dropped items. For every 10 white monsters increase base timer by 1 second; 5 blue monsters increase by 1 second; every rare monster increase by 1 second; every unique boss increase by 5 seconds. This will help with boss battles that have supporting mobs like the Weaver or the Church Dungeon.

4.Adjust the timer based upon the rarity of item dropped. Rare items increase base timer by 1-2 seconds, unique items increase base timer 3-4 seconds, similar setup for currency. Players only care about items >= rare and currency >=Jewelers. Give use more time to react to the items that we care about.

5.Adjust the timer based upon the total number of items dropped. This change will provide additional reaction time for boss loot drops.

6.Any item that is not picked up before the timer expires will be destroyed. This will keep the rush of FFA while preventing players stopping mid combat to take their teammate’s loot.

7.Include a loot log and allow us to permanently ban players from our groups. If no changes are made to the core loot mechanics players will be expected to enforce loot rules that they feel comfortable with. In order to kick and block trouble players we will need to tools.

7.Add loot options to default/hardcore leagues while restricting option in ladder leagues. This will allow GGG to create a hardcore, cut throat, FFA (timer) loot league. This will benefit new players and casuals while providing hardcore players a chance to play in a FFA environment.

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Xaxyx wrote:

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dust7 wrote:

Big misconception here. It is not your loot until it is in your inventory. When loot has your name on it you have the privilege to pick it up first if you are fast enough, nothing more.

Big misconception here. If I'm playing by myself, and an item falls onto the ground, it's mine. I can pick it up, drop it again, run circles around it, drive down to the drug store and back, and look, it's still my loot. It's never, ever yours. Never.

So what's being asked here is: if we extend that model to wherein EACH player has HIS loot fall to the ground SOLELY for him -- JUST LIKE WE CAN DO RIGHT NOW IN A SOLO GAME (just like we can do right now in a solo game [right now!]) -- but in a group setting, how many baby Jesus rabbits will die?

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Jackel6672 wrote:

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Xaxyx wrote:

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dust7 wrote:

Big misconception here. It is not your loot until it is in your inventory. When loot has your name on it you have the privilege to pick it up first if you are fast enough, nothing more.

Big misconception here. If I'm playing by myself, and an item falls onto the ground, it's mine. I can pick it up, drop it again, run circles around it, drive down to the drug store and back, and look, it's still my loot. It's never, ever yours. Never.

So what's being asked here is: if we extend that model to wherein EACH player has HIS loot fall to the ground SOLELY for him -- JUST LIKE WE CAN DO RIGHT NOW IN A SOLO GAME (just like we can do right now in a solo game [right now!]) -- but in a group setting, how many baby Jesus rabbits will die?

You have the right to play solo, but the game itself is not a solo game. That is where your misconception lies. Many people CHOOSE to play by themselves, but the game allows you to open your instance at any time.

So for paragraph one, that item is only yours because you are the only one by it. If you opened up your instance, and someone else came in, it might no longer be your item.

Paragraph two is simple. If they put instanced loot in as an option, they might as well remove FFA altogether and redesign the story and style of the game. No one will play FFA if there are guaranteed drops, period. We would like to keep FFA because it is the style of game the devs told us they were making. A cut-throat action role playing game. Not a d3 clone, this is closer to a d2 clone/successor.

We all appreciate the appeal instanced has to people that can't stand that someone might pickup something that had their name on it. Since you can't control other players with silly arbitrary rules you would like to change the premise of the game, and not allow the game that was promoted this whole time.

How do you make instanced loot cut throat? If you make it so only the person that killed the monster gets the drop, you run into issues with kill stealing. If you make it drop for everyone you have leeches and lack of loot. You also make it so the only excitement of the game is bosses and maps. Whom you party with doesn't matter and its a grind to the top.

They'll lose a lot of FFA'ers if they put in instanced. It took me awhile to find a game that appealed to me after I got tired of D2. I really hope they don't change this one. Not every game should be friendly to people that can't have a competitive environment.

Sorry it took so long to respond, I live in another time zone and work as well.