Looting -- The official thread for discussing the loot system. Updated 18th March, 2013.

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wrathmar wrote:

This thread has hundreds (thousands?) of different players expressing displeasure with the current loot system and offering solutions. Development has listened to player feedback on issues including Unique gear, Respecs, The Skill Tree, Difficulty Balancing, etc.

Many of the suggestions would preserve the core system while improving the co-op experience for all players. The development posts on this subject are very old; we would be very interested what their current opinion is on this issue.

This thread has hundreds (thousands?) of different players expressing satisfaction and support for the current system.

Leaving it as-is would be considered listening to player feedback as well.

The one opinion that wrathmar and most others can't get past is the idea that adding options satisfies all players and developers. That just isn't the case. Sometimes, choosing one option that you think is best for your game is the best option. I don't know how else to state it.

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As I've said multiple times -- if there are sooooooo many people that don't like competitive looting, it should be EASY to find a group that shares your looting mentality.

Make group > Play > Add people that loot fairly to your friends list > Rinse/Repeat > Have 100+ friends that you can group with at any time and not fear ninja looting.

One side note.. from a psychology perspective.. I can tell you without any sliver of doubt that at least 33% of the most vocal anti-ffa people are the most egregious ninja looters. They convince themselves that everyone does it and they need to do it just to balance the world.

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If I'm having pizza with friends and there is one piece left and the guy that already ate the most pizza grabs it before anyone else can.. I don't share pizza with that guy anymore. I don't ask Pizza Hut to deliver the pizza in 4 separate boxes with the pizza evenly distributed.

This is an internet game with thousands of players your pizza analogy does not hold up. You know who your friends are and can adjust as needed. Unless GGG includes a loot log and the ability to block accounts from joining your public party players cannot police their desired loot rules.

As posters have said multiple times we would love the chance to find like-minded players to group with adding loot options would allow this. Hundreds of posters are expressing displeasure and only a handful want to keep the system the way it is.

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Panda413 wrote:

As I've said multiple times -- if there are sooooooo many people that don't like competitive looting, it should be EASY to find a group that shares your looting mentality.

Make group > Play > Add people that loot fairly to your friends list > Rinse/Repeat > Have 100+ friends that you can group with at any time and not fear ninja looting.

For me, it doesn't matter whether or not I trust the people I play with, it's about wanting to completely remove competition over loot. The competition over loot - even potential competition - has absolutely no value for me, it's a pure negative.

This is the case since I want to play co-op in my co-op games, not PvP.

Not to worry though, I've found the perfect solution to the current loot issues in PoE. By playing solo we get FFA and instanced loot at the same time! :)

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wrathmar wrote:

Hundreds of posters are expressing displeasure and only a handful want to keep the system the way it is.

That single statement indicates exactly how much consideration should be given to your points. Your bias is clear. You are not speaking on behalf of the community. You are speaking and seeing only things that effect you directly.

That's why it's nice to have great developers that can see the big picture and make the right decision.

Good Luck.

I'm going to respond to Chris, not to be argumentative but to just give my thoughts and feedback on these comments.

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"We're currently at record levels of party engagement in the game, and we're very pleased with how well that's doing considering the game is designed around being played solo.

The game is designed around being played solo? Does that mean the devs are happy with it being a mostly solo played game? I'm asking that as a serious question not to be sarcastic. I understand your perspective that you are at record levels of party engagement but my view as a player has always been there are very few public games and that most people are in private games or single player.

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Bear in mind that looting isn't actually pure-FFA at the moment (though we often wish it was) - there is an allocation timer that helps smooth out unfairness with lag and distance.

If the devs wish that it was pure FFA then why did you change it? Because of the feedback that you received that it wasn't a fair system? Aren't you still getting that feedback about the current system? Everyone knows that unfair situations still occur so not alot was really solved. The competitive people tend to not like the timer and the PVE people aren't satisfied with what the timer does. My question is if we are striving to make it feel fair then why not just make the option for non competitive public games?

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Adding more options to games is generally a bad thing. The goal of the game designers is to create a system of restrictions that challenge the players, rather than throw in dozens of options and allow the players to try to find a fun game in there somewhere.

My view of Path of Exile is that its an awesome game because its chock full of options. People like developing their characters because of the crazy amount of options. People like having the options to play in other leagues. Why are those options ok but just the simple option to extend the timer is not ok?

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I understand if allocated looting seems like a good idea when it hasn't been tested, but we have done extensive testing and have also seen how badly it hurt other games that implemented it. We feel this is a really important part of PoE to get right.

Your talking about pure instanced right? That's only one suggestion being thrown out there. I would be interested to hear about the games that it hurt? D3 is a common example and what I found interesting was how many players thought the same thing that I thought, which is that D3 was bad but the instanced system was greatly appreciated by the players. Is there any proof that the instanced system in D3 hurt the game? Some people like to theorize that but what proof is there? All of D3's big problems are talked about in their forums every day but where are the complaints about the loot system? I've never seen any.

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Panda413 wrote:

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wrathmar wrote:

Hundreds of posters are expressing displeasure and only a handful want to keep the system the way it is.

That single statement indicates exactly how much consideration should be given to your points. Your bias is clear. You are not speaking on behalf of the community. You are speaking and seeing only things that effect you directly.

That's why it's nice to have great developers that can see the big picture and make the right decision.

Good Luck.

Unless either of you would like to go through this entire thread and do a head count I don't see how you can argue about it. Lets say that there are 500 users who want a change in the system and 100 who want to keep it the way that it is. Which one of you is right then? 100 is more than a handful but compared to the total amount it can feel like a handful.

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iamstryker wrote:

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Panda413 wrote:

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wrathmar wrote:

Hundreds of posters are expressing displeasure and only a handful want to keep the system the way it is.

That single statement indicates exactly how much consideration should be given to your points. Your bias is clear. You are not speaking on behalf of the community. You are speaking and seeing only things that effect you directly.

That's why it's nice to have great developers that can see the big picture and make the right decision.

Good Luck.

Unless either of you would like to go through this entire thread and do a head count I don't see how you can argue about it. Lets say that there are 500 users who want a change in the system and 100 who want to keep it the way that it is. Which one of you is right then? 100 is more than a handful but compared to the total amount it can feel like a handful.

Counting won't help either.

Only a small percentage of players use the forum.

Only some of those people have expressed their opinion in this thread.

Most people that are happy with the game and current system wouldn't come to the forums just to say they like it. It's impossible to tell from just this thread what % of people are happy with FFA.

My point is - anyone who THINKS they can ascertain the popularity of one opinion or the other just from reading this thread doesn't understand these things and therefore shouldn't have their opinion on the matter considered in high regard.

My personal casual observation from reading maybe 10-15% of the posts in this thread is that many of the anti-ffa people think they know more than they know. Typical in this type of thread/complaint. They are more vocal and therefore believe their opinion is the only correct opinion.

I like to think the devs/mods read this thread late at night just "for the lulz" -- less than 1% of the content is what anyone would consider quality feedback.

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Panda413 wrote:

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wrathmar wrote:

Hundreds of posters are expressing displeasure and only a handful want to keep the system the way it is.

That single statement indicates exactly how much consideration should be given to your points. Your bias is clear. You are not speaking on behalf of the community. You are speaking and seeing only things that effect you directly.

That's why it's nice to have great developers that can see the big picture and make the right decision.

Good Luck.

im sure if they keep it ffa and they dont see the $$$ they want to it will change. remember money talks bs walks.

Feedback only needs one thing to be important which is your opinion of the game. I am here because I have a strong opinion on the topic which I notice a lot of other players have as well. If we are going to discount feedback just because there "might" be more people who have a different opinion who are not posting then why have the forums at all? If the devs can't make any kind of conclusions based on the forums then they may as well not be up at all.

There are also players who don't leave feedback and don't like the current system. So what.