Melee Shadow what's the appeal

Thinking about dropping my dagger and relevant talents for a good hard hitting 1h sword for more whirling blades dmg though. Will have to contemplate this further.

"

Dark0mens wrote:

Thinking about dropping my dagger and relevant talents for a good hard hitting 1h sword for more whirling blades dmg though. Will have to contemplate this further.

Interestingly enough, I've been doing this since Dark Age of Camelot. The Shadow equivalent of the 'elven' realm there, the Nightshade, was typically built to dual-wield daggers. I realised fairly early on that you could get harder hits if you went sword-dagger instead. Overall damage output was lower, but the initial hit more than made up for it.

I think this is also where the rogue/assassin archetype is sometimes misconceived as well -- yes, you can stab away very quickly with two daggers, but you're not meant to make yourself too much of a target. The easiest way to mitigate that, I think, is to make sure that your first hit, dealt from stealth (or teleport, as in the case of Flicker Strike) is a really hard one, since it's the only strike you can land without being hit first. It needs to count, as do whatever few blows you can get in before having to zip away.

Right now, at level 42, I have two main techniques when soloing as Charan (shall we call him a Blade-Shadow? It'd be nice to have a Meleemancer equivalent in PoE at last):

1) Flicker in, viper 2-3 times, whirling blades out or to the next enemy

2) Flicker in, frenzy three times, hit a blue drink, flicker away

Technique 1 is safer and more efficient, but technique 2 is quicker at the expense of mana and safety. Both work just fine.

It never really occured to me to make a dual-wielding Shadow...maybe I should have clarified that before defending the Melee Shadow in the first place. Either I wield Tipua (still carving things up in Ruthless, but probably replacable by now -- shh, don't tell Her that) or I go weapon+shield, especially given my reliance on evasion+blocking. The attack speed buff of dual-wielding is nice, but with IAS nodes, weapon, gloves, rings and Frenzy charges, a single-weapon Shadow can still become a blur of death.

Yes, even the melee Shadow (no, especially the melee Shadow) must think about defence. Whether you cheese it with Iron Reflexes or mix it up with high life, regen and evasion nodes, you need to be able to survive those hits that will get through. I think a shield is essential in that equation, assuming you're committed to a certain item or style for quasi-roleplay purposes...

I like to use daggers b/c they are quick and more "assassin" style which seems to fit nicely with the Shadow. Also using Whirling Blades in conjunction with Diamond Flask to spread mass Adder's Touch is awesome. I just want my Whirling Blades to do more up front dmg. Heck I might just wait and use the weapon swap that is supposed to be coming in the next patch for just that sort of thing. Sword in one setup, dagger in the other....only problem will be finding two great shields but I can work with that.

I have built 2 shadows in a relatively short time and BOTH builds have been a lot of fun and certainly easily survivable.

I made dagger / shield and dual wield claw. I have had fun on both builds and really haven't had any trouble. I mean, i do chug my potions, but im a D2 veteran (since 2000) and i am very familiar with that mechanic. Also what is so bad about having potion buffs up all the time? Basically why WOULDNT you want to use potions as much as possible?

I dont really have much of a problem surviving on either character unless i get surrounded by mobs which is usually like 7+. Otherwise i can double strike right through everything within 1-2 doubles. I do have to kite some boss mobs occasionally but i figured because this is ES / evasion defense you dont want to take every hit.

I do have to agree that evasion is very underpowered though! But i think this is common knowledge right now.

I do believe it's hard to properly rate melee at this stage. There just aren't enough melee skills and there aren't enough varied melee skills -- let alone skills for claws or daggers, of which there are very few. There isn't really an advantage of playing "rogue" with the shadow than going "rogue" with the deulist, marauder or ranger. Again, this exists because of the lack of purpose for claws and daggers.

i build a dual wield life leecher-claw shadow, pretty stuck at lvl 29 now. with decent DPS (about 200) but lack of defence (4% dmg reduction 250hp/150es 24% chance evade). i can handle mob with swirling blade with cold support gem.
the trouble is i cant handle boss or rare monster ( one hit 3/4 hp ). i take soul raker, increase damage & speed for claw, and critical chance.
my question is..what nodes should i take for defence?
should i take iron reflexes? (but the path is way too long). or should i take acrobatic, which increase dodge but remove ar and es. i think its risky. or should i take es nodes?
until right now im focusing on dex nodes.


would you all take suggestion for me?:D

"

Qarl wrote:

Thanks for your feedback.

You are not the only person with survivability issues with the Shadow, and it is something we are trying to work on.

The Shadow does explicitly have a magic possibility to them, and is presented somewhat as a mage/assassin kind of character.

Ethereal Knives does has some issues we want to resolve.

Please make Ethereal Knives a physical skill It would fit better on melee shadow builds.

That spell is so beautiful.

"

arclordz wrote:

i build a dual wield life leecher-claw shadow, pretty stuck at lvl 29 now. with decent DPS (about 200) but lack of defence (4% dmg reduction 250hp/150es 24% chance evade). i can handle mob with swirling blade with cold support gem.
the trouble is i cant handle boss or rare monster ( one hit 3/4 hp ). i take soul raker, increase damage & speed for claw, and critical chance.
my question is..what nodes should i take for defence?
should i take iron reflexes? (but the path is way too long). or should i take acrobatic, which increase dodge but remove ar and es. i think its risky. or should i take es nodes?
until right now im focusing on dex nodes.


would you all take suggestion for me?:D

Full evasion + HP is my build, I rarely take a it but when I do take its full damage but I can survive because of my increased health.

I use evasion only items with acrobatics.

If the most likely change for Flicker Strike (rumoured to be a cooldown that can be avoided with a certain condition) comes into play, I think I'll really fall in love with it. The fact that it's currently an 'I win' button really turns me off what is otherwise such an awesome skill.

Making me WORK for that sort of awesome is what this game is all about. And if there's one thing the Melee Shadow is, it's work. You must remain agile, quick, always ready to pop a potion. But occasionally, occasionally, you marvel at how efficiently he dances around the fray, dispatching foes before they even realise he's there.

I <3 my Blade-Shadow.

"

side1985 wrote:

"

Qarl wrote:

Thanks for your feedback.

You are not the only person with survivability issues with the Shadow, and it is something we are trying to work on.

The Shadow does explicitly have a magic possibility to them, and is presented somewhat as a mage/assassin kind of character.

Ethereal Knives does has some issues we want to resolve.

Please make Ethereal Knives a physical skill It would fit better on melee shadow builds.

That spell is so beautiful.

If you look at that skill's associated thread in the skills feedback board, you can see you are far from alone in this sentiment. I think they should rename it though -- 'Ethereal' literally means 'non-physical'...