Melee Shadow what's the appeal

My claw shadow failed around cruel, but that is a build problem since it was my first character and I wasn't really sure as to what I was doing.

I don't see how you had a problem at lvl 11 though, since any points in the passive tree would have helped unless you spent them all in int nodes or something, which doesn't really appear to be what you did.

Evasion does however seem a bit terrible right now, but that could have just been my own experience as well due to how I built my character.

As for skills not feeling "roguish," I never had that problem. Duel strike is pretty roguish in my opinion, setting traps is pretty roguish in my opinion, whirling blades is fun - not sure why you call it a "joke," considering it is extremely useful for entering and quick leaving combat when necessary (kind of like the class description details).

I guess everyone has a different opinion, I'd just hate to see someone's opinion be based off their lack of knowledge.

Here's how I view the class:

A Shadow class should be fairly weak in combat face-to-face; however they should benefit greatly from crowd-control, possibly hit and run DoT (viper strike is 'ok' but there could be better options, particularly AOE,) and significantly enhanced damage to enemies they've 'setup.'

Generally a rogue uses the classical backstab, which is a stealth setup move with a big finisher. This type of mechanic, reworked to be viable in an ARPG would be interesting. I think the Shadow class lacks such a mechanic entirely that relies on setup with a big end payoff... despite their charge system allowing this as a possibility. (I think the charge system could be implemented in a better way, but that's another topic)

All classes need big flashy area effects. While some might contend that Whirling Blades is theirs or perhaps ethereal knives... I'm not sure how I feel about that.

I feel strongly that the shadow needs abilities that are specifically not simple melee attacks (eg. double-strike) and not strictly spells. They are not really either a witch nor a duelist. I think they should expend their mana in a unique, intelligent way, that is significantly differentiated from Witch mechanics.

I've learned to play really carefully on my Shadow. He's my highest character, and I like to play him as a hit-and-run style of character.

I just uploaded a video of a Cruel Fetid Pool run with him if anyone is interested:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-GrKBAWfv4&feature=youtu.be

Building on what zeto said, I believe that Flicker Strike is the backstab of PoE -- it gets you up-close without being detected (thus simulating stealth) and it deals extra damage (thus simulating the critical nature of the backstab).

With that in mind, I propose a reshuffle of quest rewards. Using the google document quest reward list as a guide, I think the following would go a long way towards making the early Melee Shadow much more attractive but certainly not overpowered in the long run:

1) Remove 'Raise Zombie' from the Medicine chest reward, replace with 'Viper Strike'

2) Remove 'Ethereal Knives' from the Glyph Wall, replace with 'Whirling Blades'

3) Remove 'Power Siphon' from Brutus, replace with 'Flicker Strike'

4) Remove 'Righteous Fire' from Wicked Spear, replace with 'Ethereal Knives'

In this way, the Shadow is losing Raise Zombie and Righteous Fire (could be placed elsehwere), with the latter being a very specialised skill and the former a summoning skill, which I really don't see many Shadows doing (even though they're Dex/Int, the Int usually goes towards nuking). 'Power Siphon' is good for the dual wand build, of course, but a level 10 Templar or Witch can get it easily enough. I think a little more care needs to be made to give the early Shadow Melee-ranged damage advantages.

With my proposed changes, you'd gain Viper Strike a little earlier, but it's a level 4 skill, so why not?

The big problem to me lies in Whirling Blades and Flicker Strike both being level 10 req skills. This means that even if you made both rewards for Brutus (level 10 ish), you'd have to choose one or the other, when they're actually both integral to a good Melee Shadow build. So I'd throw Whirling Blades in at the Glyph wall (when a Shadow is probably 5-6) and have them just sit on it for a bit. This may sound weird, but keep in mind that Double Strike used to be a level 19 req skill thrown at the Duelist mid act 1. It made no sense, but there you go.

Ideally I'd reduce Whirling Blades to level 6 requirement.

I propose moving Ethereal Knives to later because it's bloody useless without support gems anyway.

And finally, the big blow, Flicker Strike at level 10 for the Shadow -- this would be a huge boost to an early game Melee Shadow. You'd still be squishy and have to be careful, but you'd have that little 'oomph' that being squishy should offer. It's a level 10 req skill currently offered in mid act 2. That makes no sense to me at all.

I think these changes would definitely improve the Melee Shadow in the early game and encourage more people to stick to him into the later levels. They'd also strengthen the image of the Shadow as a quick, deadly but somewhat frail killer, a challenging but rewarding class loaded to the teeth with Increased Attack Speed, perfect for delivering Viper Strikes and Punctures.

I am currently working on another dagger shadow (yes I said ANOTHER) that uses Double Strike and Whirling Blades as it's main staples. Throw in some fire traps supported by Temporal Chains curse and a Decoy Totem every now and then. I don't really have the mana to use my 2 auras and my tempest shield so I stick with Tempest Shield for now. I was actually going to use Voll's on him but I DEFINITELY don't have the mana for that.

He is a single dagger with shield ES/EV hybrid. Something like 44% shield block, like 40% evasion at the moment, around 500 ES I believe and over 500 HP. He does pretty good overall focusing on mobility granted via Temporal Chains and Whirling Blades(he really needs some run speed boots again). I also have Adder's Touch passive for crits with my dagger since he is a crit build.

Personally I am LOVING this build. I think Flicker Strike is very boring especially when compared to Whirling Blades. Toss up Temporal Chains, throw down a couple of Fire Traps, hit my Diamond Flask and zip around through the groups of mobs that are waaaaaay too slow to react spreading Adder's Touch. Then finish off single mobs with Double Strike which has an awesome animation for daggers. Sure he has his problems especially against casters and I am thinking of putting my unique amulet back on him to give him 22% spell block for when I face casters to give him a little more survivability.

For now though what he can't kill he just runs away from and kites it to death. I find this play style extremely fun. Luckily for me though IF I do hit a brick wall I just get on one of my other characters and farm up some items and craft some better gear. I also benefit from having a bunch of orbs in my stash.

Overall at the moment probably my favorite class/style to play but would probably be the 2nd or 3rd (depending on the minion AI patch) to play when the game goes to OB. Simply due to gear dependencies that it feels melee shadow currently has.

Also my first shadow was actually a Dual Wielding Dagger shadow but he started to get rocked and just throwing on a shield made him 10x more durable.

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Dark0mens wrote:

...I think Flicker Strike is very boring especially when compared to Whirling Blades...

Me too, dude. But I think I'd be more inclined to use Flicker Strike if it were offered earlier so I could learn to incorporate it into my build. Also, there are strong rumours of a cooldown coming to Flicker Strike, one that will possibly have a workaround, and I think that'll go a long way in making the skill less boring.

The Shadow isn't a bad class for melee, it's just very different to other classes.

This is mainly due to the fact it doesn't have a starting path that leads into defensive options directly. However I think that in comparison to it's bow options, the melee variant of the Shadow isn't really meant to be built all that differently.

Bow Shadow
1H+Shield Shadow

I'm sure there are more offensive builds available than the ones I have come up with, but I feel like these two builds are probably the most end-game viable Shadow builds without compromising on what it's starting point and gear offers. I prefer characters that don't rely on gimmicks like Keystones, because those kinds of characters are usually very easily countered in PvP.

Pain attunement + chaos inoculation work together? I guess not since you are always at 100% hp :P

Melee shadow doesn't come into its own until you get some of the defining abilities and/or skills. Single target dps is off the chain. I went to merciless and was oneshotting and twoshotting yellows.

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Neikius wrote:

Pain attunement + chaos inoculation work together? I guess not since you are always at 100% hp :P

No, but the support gem that gives +30% more melee damage when on full life works wonders :D