So I MUST interact with the league mechanic every new map or zone in campaign.

"

Senju_Hyoketsu wrote:

I can't believe what I'm reading, it literally hurts every fiber of my body.

Dude, I started this game back in Breach league, in Hardcore mode. In Hardcore. I probably made 25 characters who all died, and reached level 90 a few times. On every second character I tried creating my own build (they were absolute trash), yet it was really fun. And I still remember most of the deaths, that's how iconic and fun it was.

And you dare talk about people not able to finish the campaign ?! Huh. What.

Same. You are literally projecting your own subjective experience onto others and dismissing theirs.

Back when I used to watch Twitch a lot, I watched many streamers play PoE for the first time. In the beginning, most of them were thrilled. Roughly 90% of them didn't play past Act 5. That's where a big sudden difficulty spike comes. Many of them died over and over to Innocence or Kitava, and it frustrated the hell out of them. Understandibly.

The game is anything but new player friendly. Last Epoch has the same issue, kind of, where some of the early mobs hit too hard imo, but at least it doesn't spam you with mobs that freeze you, stun you, shock you, curse you and whatnot. The Fireball and Lightning skeletons in Act 1 are way overtuned and can kill you quickly if you don't know what you are doing. They also got buffed a while back, among others, making Act 1 even harder. Molten Shell mobs were immediately nerfed after that patch because people kept one-shotting themselves to them.

It's not surprising at all that people quit PoE quite early. It tries so hard to make you not stay. Only some will enjoy the frustration and complexity.

Last Epoch overtook PoE's player peak by a large margin for a reason. Though it has many other problems imo. People won't be staying there, either.

"

Phrazz wrote:

"

Senju_Hyoketsu wrote:

...what was once an amazing game...

It's still an amazing game.

In my eyes, they have absolutely stayed "faithful" to me and my hopes for the game, and just like you, I've been here for the "past 10 years". In your eyes, what was the "original philosophy and game design" you believe got lost along the way?

Do you think GGG as a company would be where "it is today" if PoE wouldn't have been progressive and ever-changing?

Sure being progressive and ever-changing can be good to a certain degree, but there's a limit at which point it becomes too much. Where the game has strayed too far from its original vision and core essence.

How can you even claim that they stayed faithful to their origins after we just had a league with drop rates x1000, in which every single item and currency got devalued to the utter maximum. A league in which everyone had access to everything, what was the point of even playing to loot something, in a loot-based game ?! Dropping hundreds of divines per day, dropped a Headhunter, dropped a Mageblood ; for the first time ever I didn't get any joy whatsoever from seeing things drop, and from seeing these items on the floor. That's a huge game design mistake, in a loot-based game.
And the worst part of this is that a lot of people actually liked it. Affliction defeats the core principle of a loot-based game, and I can guarantee you with absolute certainty that did Affliction go core, the game would be dead within a year.

Every league they nerf the mechanic 3 days in for no reason, other than players being unable to cope with any ounce of difficulty and pushback. Players just want to zoom and insta clear screens without thinking, and GGG is catering to them.

The game's meta has been the same for 3 years now, they stopped doing real balance patches. And no, transfigured gems aren't a meta change... For 3 years now, 40% of the player base has been a combination of Tornado Shot, Lightning Arrow, Deadeye, Pathfinder and Detonate Dead... This ain't about to change unless they do a real balance patch.

And then you have archetypes that are so fundamentally broken and overpowered (relative to their required investment and playstyle), where you can simply safely run around passively while stuff is being taken care off, all the while being able to instaphase bosses or instaclear screens. Archetypes such as Mines, Traps, Minions and Totems. Why ? Because they cater to casuals and low-skilled individuals. I'm not saying these should get removed from the game, but they should definitely all be nerfed, hard. They simply offer too much, too easily, for what is required of the player as opposed to other archetypes.
And where's melee? lol...

Now they introduce 3x passives atlas trees, which is beyond QOL. And PoE2 will have dual specializations... By implementing changes such as this, we're getting closer and closer to negating both atlases (passive skill tree and atlas passive skill tree), further removing their reason to exist and impact in the first place.
And that in a role playing game where characters are supposed to be uniquely specialized into specific content (the core essence of an rpg itself). But no, no, players need to be able to have access to everything easily, because they are whining, and because everyone has 3 wives, 5 jobs and 11 kids nowadays.

"

BaumisMagicalWorld wrote:

"

Senju_Hyoketsu wrote:

I can't believe what I'm reading, it literally hurts every fiber of my body.

Dude, I started this game back in Breach league, in Hardcore mode. In Hardcore. I probably made 25 characters who all died, and reached level 90 a few times. On every second character I tried creating my own build (they were absolute trash), yet it was really fun. And I still remember most of the deaths, that's how iconic and fun it was.

And you dare talk about people not able to finish the campaign ?! Huh. What.

Same. You are literally projecting your own subjective experience onto others and dismissing theirs.

Of course, and rightly so. As I already stated : Path of Exile is not supposed to be a game for everyone, it never has been and shouldn't try to be. No game should be. The best games have their unique crowds and niches, catering to a specific and distinct audiences.

Which in turn also means that not all takes on design and philosophies are correct, some are bound to be right and some are bound to be wrong. This is not fantasy land where all opinions matter, and everyone can have it all.

Let me give you an example. Take the game of Basketball ; then for 10 years people complain and want to change the rules. Because you see, some can't jump, some can't run, some can't pass, etc. Everyone and their mother needs to be on equal footing right..?! So then the rules get altered, slowly, one by one, in order to accommodate everyone. Then slowly, and later down the line; the game you once knew, loved and called Basketball is unrecognizable, it simply isn't the same anymore.

"

Senju_Hyoketsu wrote:

Of course, and rightly so. As I already stated : Path of Exile is not supposed to be a game for everyone, it never has been and shouldn't try to be.

There's a difference between a game not being for everyone and a game making itself unfun in the beginning to the point where people feel the need to leave.

Ever heard of progressive difficulty? Act 1 alone has so many different things crammed into every area that everything is deadly and simply unfun:

Sirens with extra ES and crabs chilling and chain-freezing you. Some of them curse you and barrage you with Elemental Damage.

Tentacle thingies swarming you, exploding in your face.

Monsters cornering you between them. No movement ability or Phasing yet.

Rhoas charging from off-screen and stun-locking you.

Dogs setting the ground on fire.

Some weird spitting creeps shooting you from range.

Goats stunning and nuking you with Leap Slam and Molten Shell.

Humans nuking you with firebombs and firebreath.

Fireball and Spark skeletons nuking you while you are getting shredded with arrows. On top of that, a larger enemy that makes you weaker and spawns skeletons.

Mini-Bosses that nuke you, freeze you, pull you to them, spawn adds and so on.

Act 1 is simply super bloated for new players. They won't have any proper resists yet.

Stop looking at it from your perspective where you are familiar with everything and know how the game works. PoE is probably the worst ARPG you could recommend to someone trying to get into the genre for the first time.

"

Senju_Hyoketsu wrote:

Let me give you an example. Take the game of Basketball ; then for 10 years people complain and want to change the rules. Because you see, some can't jump, some can't run, some can't pass, etc. Everyone and their mother needs to be on equal footing right..?! So then the rules get altered, slowly, one by one, in order to accommodate everyone. Then slowly, and later down the line; the game you once knew, loved and called Basketball is unrecognizable, it simply isn't the same anymore.

I find this argument super funny. The first iterations of basketball were absolutely brutal. The game was invented 133 years ago. Different times then. It has changed quite a lot since then; for good reason. Doesn't make it not basketball. There are still too many rules and requirements that it's definitely not for everyone.

There are even separate versions of basketball for people who like the sport but can't compete at normal level if you will, so you can still play the one you like.

And the best part of it all is that your example is super ironic because PoE in essence is the same it was 10 years ago. Zoom-zoom has been a thing since its inception. There always were people and builds taking things to the extreme. Aspects of the game have changed, a great many to my own disliking, but the game at its core is still doing the same thing it did 10 years ago.

This type of conservative thinking is why we are where we are today as a society. Can't let others enjoy what I enjoy, right? Everything must be designed and trimmed the way I enjoy it.

I don't even die in Acts anymore... and I don't even consider myself a ''good'' player mechanically by any means. Like it probably takes me 9 hours to finish the campaign...
I don't even make efforts no to die, so if a death is near I won't even make efforts to avoid it most of the time.

And, when I first started I had no issues dying, how is it a problem.

Come on now, claiming the campaign is too hard... LOL :D

If anything it should be much harder, and the Act 1-2 reworks should be applied to all of them.

"

Senju_Hyoketsu wrote:

I don't even die in Acts anymore... and I don't even consider myself a ''good'' player mechanically by any means. Like it probably takes me 9 hours to finish the campaign...
I don't even make efforts no to die, so if a death is near I won't even make efforts to avoid it most of the time.

And, when I first started I had no issues dying, how is it a problem.

Come on now, claiming the campaign is too hard... LOL :D

If anything it should be much harder, and the Act 1-2 reworks should be applied to all of them.

Congratulations, do you want a medal? Now tell us how many hours you have in PoE and how it totally makes no diffrence, person who picked the game for the first time in their life will deifnitely find it as easy.

You know whats funny? We know you are wrong because there is literally a proof in PoE for that. Ever heard of Ruthless mode? WHere its "good old hard PoE"? Yeah, its beyond dead.

"

Senju_Hyoketsu wrote:

I don't even die in Acts anymore... and I don't even consider myself a ''good'' player mechanically by any means. Like it probably takes me 9 hours to finish the campaign...
I don't even make efforts no to die, so if a death is near I won't even make efforts to avoid it most of the time.

I think you missed the part where I said it makes the game unfun, not that it makes people die non-stop.

"

bill1497 wrote:

I tend to do a quick look at the league stuff and then ignore it until I get my first character maybe into yellow maps. I am not real fast so that is 2 or 3 days by that time the smart people have basic guides on how the mechanic really works.

From what I have seen every zone stuff comes up you have to click on and if you don't you get random mods added.

Especially in the acts this is a pain, I already don't like having to grind a bunch of content that I have done before using some garbage skills until I get high enough level to get the skills I really want and maybe some 4 links.

I really don't want to have to do even more things that make no difference and slow me down from getting to content I want. At low level unless they are going to give me a tabula there is nothing I care about it will all be replaced.

On maps if it really gives enough stuff it might be worth it but there are times I am doing things that where I run scoured maps for fast completion. It would be really nice if there was a option to disable turn off the league mechanic. Others it was pretty easy to just run by the content and ignore it.

devs make new content and that should be apprised and enjoyed while leveling

"

skjutengris wrote:

"

bill1497 wrote:

I tend to do a quick look at the league stuff and then ignore it until I get my first character maybe into yellow maps. I am not real fast so that is 2 or 3 days by that time the smart people have basic guides on how the mechanic really works.

From what I have seen every zone stuff comes up you have to click on and if you don't you get random mods added.

Especially in the acts this is a pain, I already don't like having to grind a bunch of content that I have done before using some garbage skills until I get high enough level to get the skills I really want and maybe some 4 links.

I really don't want to have to do even more things that make no difference and slow me down from getting to content I want. At low level unless they are going to give me a tabula there is nothing I care about it will all be replaced.

On maps if it really gives enough stuff it might be worth it but there are times I am doing things that where I run scoured maps for fast completion. It would be really nice if there was a option to disable turn off the league mechanic. Others it was pretty easy to just run by the content and ignore it.

devs make new content and that should be apprised and enjoyed while leveling

this is why we have so many crapy games...

"

skjutengris wrote:

devs make new content and that should be apprised and enjoyed while leveling

Only when it's opt-in. Nothing worse than devs forcing a mechanic down your throat that you really don't enjoy. Gets people to skip a league, and that's definitely not what they want.

"

skjutengris wrote:

devs make new content and that should be apprised and enjoyed while leveling

YEah, forced AN monsters were so much fun. People loved it!