Exalted Orbs: The Nickelback of POE
|
I just really, really hope that one of the reasons for such an extended "Beta" is to eventually get around to finding these issues and solving them. Thus, I come here to voice issues I find in the hope that this feedback forum exists because the devs want our feedback and not just to give us a place to scream into the wind.
If enough people agree with a given issue GGG might look at it more closely to make sure it's working as intended. If this crafting system is working as intended, I'm terrified of this sacrosanct "Developer Vision". Last edited by cannabination#5277 on Apr 23, 2013, 10:04:18 PM
|
|
|
Aimlessgun really hit the nail on the head. The debate we should be having really is ' at what rate should end tier items be entering the game?'
That's really what this comes to, and that's really what is steering ggg's decision process with rarity, utility, etc. What do you need to make an endgame item? - you can make a GOOD item with buckets of alts, some regals and some scouring -but to make endgame items, you need atleast two if not three exalteds and incredible luck. ( or a bazillion choases in the past but that no longer applies) So, why does it make sense to make exalted so rare, from a ggg perspective? Because- A) the barrier to entry for making a GOOD item isn't too bad B) making an endgame item is extremely difficult If exalteds functioned in the ways you suggest ( more common, or, less randomness from their use) then the barrier to transition from A to B will reduce by x amount, that is a fact. Implications on economy be damned, that is irrelevant to this issue. Exalts are the bottleneck between you and finishing your character. GGG probably sat down and some point decided, a big part of the longevity for this game will be not finishing your character anytime soon( let's ignore replay value of making new toons, leagues seasons etc) The old chaos recipe allowed another way to brute force an endgame item. I don't know the chances of pulling that off, I'm sure it was really low. But the recipe nerf essentially removed one possible route to end game. Imagine there's two bridges , both moving slow, entering into a city. Then one bridge shuts down, guess how long your commute will now be on the other bridge? With all this in mind, the way i would present this argument to GGG is as follows ( don't mention the shitstorm economy) - again, bearing in mind that for ggg, their main concern isn't how about the utility/rarity ratio, but rather the ultimate impact on reaching 'end game gear' 1) the chaos recipe nerf, whether intentional or not, has resulted in a much higher barrier to acquiring end game items, as now the only path is via the alt regal exaltx3 route. 2) this has resulted in much less end game gear being crafted. Not only by the reduced options for access but also because of the impact of the exalted orbs perceived rarity, resulting in players hoarding and not trading it, making it even less available and exponentially reducing the generation of endgame items in the game 3) this has also had an untold impact on the ability to maintain endgame maps, as exalting /chaosing high level maps was a critical route to help keep iq at a level high enough to maintain 4) GGG please reassess whether your chaos recipe nerf had the impact you intended, with regards to the reduction in endgame item production and endgame map creation that resulted. To counter this impact, if it was not intentional, please consider either increasing exalt drop rate or modifying how it works, or reinstitute other routes to endgame. 5) please also note that the viability of maintaining endgame maps is critical to keeping your player base. If crafting a good map isn't feasible due to the exalt bottleneck, the people will be unable to maintain their maps and likely quit from frustration |
|
|
I agree entirely with the sentiment that the exalted price spike is directly related to the chaos recipe nerf. I quasi math terms, lets say that
Z - some arbitrary value of the exalt based on its intrinsic utility in reaching endgame. Impacts a very, very, very small fraction of the user base, the ones that actually use it for this purpose, so lets say the arbitrary value for Z is 1 Y - some arbitrary value based on the rarity of an exalt. This impacts EVERYONE thru the economy, so this value is very high. Lets say 1000 So total value of an exalt = Z x Y = 1000 After the chaos recipe nerf, exalts essentially doubled in utility, as there was no other route for this purpose. Now, again, this is still a very small part of the player base so Z went from 1 to 2. But now Z x Y = 2000 Replace z and y with the actual impact of both those factors and you have a pretty straightforward explanation for the spike in their value. It has nothing to do with RMTs - they just follow the demand. Why they do get exalts? Because people are crazy enough to spend cash on them. |
|
" Good post. The thing about exalts acting as a sort of dam, stemming the flow of people that have access to endgame gear, is that even assuming that's 100% true, it's STILL clunky and overdone. Their rarity alone should act as quite a strong limiting factor in this regard, and that's even working under the best case scenario, where using an exalt ends up adding a beneficial mod to an item. The problem is, that in addition to their rarity, exalts are almost as likely, if not more so perhaps, to remove items from the end game gear pool, by bricking them with shit stats like light radius and +3 thorns. It would be one thing if you got your hands on an exalt, and then it failed to upgrade your gear, but that's not the problem. The problem is a combination of getting an exalt, and then hoping it doesn't give you +4% fire resist, reduced stat requirement, + to thorns, light radius, etc. It's RNG on top of RNG, whereas their rarity alone could perhaps be a sufficient barrier to entry. I propose that they change exalts by limiting the pool of mods they can add to an item, and making it so that they have a chance to outright fail to do ANYTHING, so that you just have to try again, rather than fucking your amazing, godly, endgame item with +3 thorns. Alteration Orb Union Local #7 "Alts are 16:1 Chaos. You got that tough guy? Last edited by Obsidus#7533 on Apr 24, 2013, 5:40:17 AM
|
|
|
Too lazy to go back and check but i could not disagree more with the lunatic who was blowing hot air about exalts being 'icing on the cake' on an already good item. There are TONS of good items with three great stats. Three exalts isn't 'icing' - maybe that's what you tell yourself when you get thorns, light radius and reduced attributes. Three exalts is what takes your damn good item and makes it 'omg please take my mirror' item. THAT is what makes the item powerful , and that means a lot more than just icing. Any idiot can get three good stats on an items. When people use an exalt, they aren't looking at it as ' oh well I already had THREE GREAT STATS so who cares I rolled thorns and 3% fire resist' - they could have gotten those three great stats in trade channels for a fraction of what they spent on alts regals and scouring. They are essentially PAYING a premium to leave those last three spots blank.
Getting a shit 4th stat or more from an exalt should piss you off, not just from the exalt but from the several exalts worth of currency you spent before exalting it, which would have cost A LOT more than those three stats alone are worth, even before the wasted exalt orb |
|
" Yes. Their mechanics need work or we need a new option. I'm having a serious problem upgrading my gear, I haven't even considered switching out a piece in weeks. It's fine to want to slow the appearance of items that are so good that they'll never leave the economy, but we have to consider why that is. If Bill is wearing a 5L chest with 70 life, 90% armor/evasion, +200 armor, and 25 FR and LR. Most people would call that a pretty decent chest. Not so good that he'll never look for another as each of those stats could be better, but good enough that he doesn't have to worry about it until he sees the right item. He knows he shouldn't Exalt that last mod because the other mods are middle of the road, and the item is good enough for level 65. So he isn't spending any more currency on chest pieces. He isn't going to bother trying to craft that white 6L full dragonscale in his bank with the regal route, because he doesn't have a lot of top-end currency and the odds of getting something better than he has are extremely slim. He keeps wearing that 5L for 4 months, wishing he could get something better on that 6L, but the chaos/alch/scour route just isn't panning out. So Bill has gone 4 months without upgrading his chest piece. He's level 83 and he's getting frustrated because the maps he's running are starting to get really tough, but he doesn't have the currency to try to mess with his chest piece anymore because he has to sink all of his currency into obtaining and doctoring all of his maps. He realizes a few weeks later that he's farming more than he did when he played WoW, but he never gets an upgrade and there really isn't the chance for one on the horizon, so he quits playing POE for a game with a reasonable progression and reward system. This isn't helping the either the economy or the crafting system. Last edited by cannabination#5277 on Apr 24, 2013, 12:20:05 PM
|
|
" So because 3 exalts didn't make your item mirror worthy its garbage? Get real. Btw, the odds of rolling 3 mods in the lowest tier is the same as 3 mods in the highest. Both incredibly unlikely. If the item wasn't worth exalting, why would you do it in the first place? |
|
" I know this wasn't addressed to me, but it does seem to be indicative of a desconnect between us at times. I, anyway, am referring to how I envision a smooth and rewarding crafting system working. Ideally, rather than what we have to deal with presently. I think people should be able to embrace the crafting system without feeling like they just got scammed a week later. Be it because of better mechanics or simply cheaper chances to roll more often, you should have reasonable assurance that despite the high number of currency items invested you will at some point create the item that you want. I'm not asking that it be easy or cheap. In fact, one of the reasons I feel the crafting system is so important is the sink it provides for top-tier currency. I just ask that it not be COMPLETELY random with the only failure condition resulting in the waste of all invested currency when you Scour it off to start from scratch. Last edited by cannabination#5277 on Apr 24, 2013, 1:00:06 PM
|
|
|
It's not crafting, it's gambling, and it's a currency sink, and it's intended. Realise this, it's a big eye opener, and things will be clearer afterwards.
Is it fun? Not to me, it looks horrifically stupid and crazy. First I was quite impressed: "wow, these guys are really smart, they found a way to deal with botting and RMT! I thought shit like this was not possible!". Then I got to see the system at work, and it made me puke. Not to mention it doesn't even manage to solve the issues that set itself to solve, so... they might as well get gold and an AH by now, it wouldn't matter. But my feelings are irrelevant. What is relevant is that: - the system is NOT a development mistake/mishap - it is intended - it accomplishes its functions - it is quite irritating to anybody expecting RPG crafting - it is a gamble - you will lose a LOT more than you will win by embracing it (i.e., trying to use it as classical RPG crafting) - playing it is really expensive placeholder for creative sig Last edited by Undon3#5633 on Apr 24, 2013, 1:04:34 PM
|
|
" All of these issues are why I brought up the currency sink. Removing these things from the economy is actually a good thing. It gets people trading them rather than hording them which gets the economy moving, and there are more of them available for crafters. They just need to be worth using to get the ball rolling. Crafting is so prohibitive that no one does it, so it isn't really a sink. Instead the only currency sink is maps, which(at the level where you'll be using top tier currency on them) are so tough to get that I don't think they can fully realize that purpose or need. That's not a good situation for traders or crafters. If you don't fall into one of those categories, you are a seriously lucky s.o.b. Last edited by cannabination#5277 on Apr 24, 2013, 1:19:16 PM
|
|
