Aurabots messed up the whole league economy and it sucks hard

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Deadandlivin wrote:

I'm not sure whether Aurabots are the major culprit. I do agree that Aurabots destroy the game and all form of Aurastacking should be nerfed to the ground (These types of builds have been a problem for the game for an eternity).

But the reason your bases aren't selling isn't because Aurabots are farming bases faster than you. Although, they are a problem and are most likely supplying more bases than solo players.

The main reason your bases aren't selling is because of the supply and demand curves. Put simply, the supply greatly outweighs the demand. There simply aren't enough players to buy all the bases you're farming.

Aura bots and broken builds have existed in all leagues and these builds have always been supplying the market with a masive amount of bases.
However, in past leagues these bases would actually sell because people were actually playing the game.

It's quite easy to determine the prevalence based on scarab prices as the higher the price and lower the standard return, the more prevalent they are.

I'm not sure about the player base statement as right now is the peak for it and relative to the available supply and decreased demand, we are looking at 1 month numbers.

All bases have dropped drastically, not just a few niche influence ones. Bone Helmet & Apothecary gloves which are more in meta than last league have dropped in prices by 3x.
Target farming them last league made sense, this league not at all.
I wouldn't even leave the map to sell them - my lowest tab is 8C.

I sold a Devouring Diadem for 110c the other day. I don't know if it's league timing economics, but they were going for like 5c max end of Ultimatum. I'm guessing I have aurabot meta to thank for this?

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Actually agree though and I think leaving aura bots alone was a fairly glaring hole in their great rebalance as they've long been the biggest culprits for trivializing content and I get frustrated by the only defence being "nobody plays them" or "you go play bitchboi then LUL"

GGG nerf shit out of skills that next to nobody plays all the damn time, especially if they trivialize content yet this glaring hole persists. There is a reason why its so easy for people to believe they are left in as personal bias.

I enjoy the game more when top tier farming and item acquisition are hard and sought after, even when I'm not good enough to do those things yet. Whereas GGG's current system merely enriches players in groups in return for one of them accepting being bored.

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Draegnarrr wrote:

[Removed by Support]

Actually agree though and I think leaving aura bots alone was a fairly glaring hole in their great rebalance as they've long been the biggest culprits for trivializing content and I get frustrated by the only defence being "nobody plays them" or "you go play bitchboi then LUL"

GGG nerf shit out of skills that next to nobody plays all the damn time, especially if they trivialize content yet this glaring hole persists. There is a reason why its so easy for people to believe they are left in as personal bias.

I enjoy the game more when top tier farming and item acquisition are hard and sought after, even when I'm not good enough to do those things yet. Whereas GGG's current system merely enriches players in groups in return for one of them accepting being bored.

Aura Stacking will be changed next league. I saw somewhere that they didn't have time to fit it in.


They will have to Re-work some Aura's if they do this.. or they will have some worthless Skill gems.. Mostly the Purity of Fire/Ice/Lightning

I don't understand why players have to point fingers at NERF THIS STUFF IM NOT PLAYING in a game which is mostly played as a single player exprience.

Why do you want to impair what other people are enjoying?

Isn't the core question, ARE YOU HAVING FUN WITH WHATEVER YOU ARE DOING?

If yes, everything is fine, if not then maybe try to change things up so you are enjoying YOUR gameplay.

While I can see some of the nerfs viable in the long term, like ailment immunities etc. (I am not saying that the execution was good) as they might impair future design choices.
I literally had no fun with the changes to core gameplay deployed.
So I quit and turned into a forum lurker.

TLDR

Who cares if something is overperforming if you have fun playing a game. This isn't Starcraft, Counterstrike or DotA, which have huge competitive scenes.

If you enjoy it, keep doing what you are doing. If not change whatever you are doing so it turns into a good experience. If that means quitting a game, then so be it.

aurabots dindu nuffin you just hatin

Supply vs Demand

We have lost half the steam playerbase and likely as much if not more from main client.

The players remaining are all playing a few meta builds and many don't need these influenced bases.

The cost of entry is too high for solo players because their competition is groups who save on the entry fee. So yea, their cost is lower than yours so they can sell for cheaper than you no matter what.

The reality is that these nerfs were toxic to every aspect of the game. The progression being slower and the build diversity being practically nonexistent will cause the economy to warp towards the few strong build in a way we've not seen in a long time.

The alternatives aren't there and the population is strained. SO it's just compounding market forces at work. Crafters will possibly enjoy the environment to some extent, but when there's less than 20k players on steam the econ is typically considered well and truly dead.

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Kiss_Me_Quick wrote:

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Deadandlivin wrote:

I'm not sure whether Aurabots are the major culprit. I do agree that Aurabots destroy the game and all form of Aurastacking should be nerfed to the ground (These types of builds have been a problem for the game for an eternity).

But the reason your bases aren't selling isn't because Aurabots are farming bases faster than you. Although, they are a problem and are most likely supplying more bases than solo players.

The main reason your bases aren't selling is because of the supply and demand curves. Put simply, the supply greatly outweighs the demand. There simply aren't enough players to buy all the bases you're farming.

Aura bots and broken builds have existed in all leagues and these builds have always been supplying the market with a masive amount of bases.
However, in past leagues these bases would actually sell because people were actually playing the game.

It's quite easy to determine the prevalence based on scarab prices as the higher the price and lower the standard return, the more prevalent they are.

I'm not sure about the player base statement as right now is the peak for it and relative to the available supply and decreased demand, we are looking at 1 month numbers.

All bases have dropped drastically, not just a few niche influence ones. Bone Helmet & Apothecary gloves which are more in meta than last league have dropped in prices by 3x.
Target farming them last league made sense, this league not at all.
I wouldn't even leave the map to sell them - my lowest tab is 8C.

Your Scarab argument is actually very interesting.

In previous leagues Scarabs have been very cheap due to 100% delirius fractured map farmers supplying the bulk of the economy. During Harvest, Heist and Ritual these Deli farmers basically supplied majority of the scarab market and made bulk scarabs very accessible to all players.

I remember always running 4 scarabs with every map I did that league because they were so cheap. You could simply add Polished Carto, Legions and Metamorph with everything you did and always get big returns.
It was a juicers paradise.

In Ultimatum they removed fractured map farming and this annihilated the supply of scarabs and made them much more scarce. This caused Scarab prices to shoot through the roof. Attractive scarabs went from costing 2 chaos for polished in bulk to more than 10 chaos each for some rusted ones (Blight Scarabs). Just basic scarabs like rusted metamorphs and cartographys started costing more than 5 chaos per scarab.

It was no longer worth casually popping in any scarab you had or you would be losing money. Now you needed to combine your scarabs with the correct watchstones and atlas region to make returns. If you casually ran a Polished Breach scarab or a Legion Scarab in Haework Hamlet you were most likely going to lose money. This was the result of restricting the supply on the scarab market.

Now, enter expedition and the supply of scarabs seems to be roughly the same as during Ultimatum. We still don't have fractured map farmers oversupplying the market with scarabs, meaning they should still be somewhat scarce.
But I just went into PoE trade to look at the prices and I was shocked.
Scarab prices seem to be lower than I've for quite some while during a league start. I see bulks of polished carto scarabs for 2c each, rusted legion for 2c each, rusted blight for 0.5 c each, polished breach for 5c each (Breach are always high during league start).

And as the power of these scarabs will drop (Breach uniques lower in price), Blighted Maps lower in price et.c. Scarabs usually lower in price over the league.

The fact that scarabs are very cheap this league when the supply of scarabs remains low (Ultimatum level of Scarab supply) really speak weight on the demand being very low this league.

Currently(Monday) the player peak seems to be ~52k. Compared to league start 11 days ago which was 116k, that's a 56% drop in players on day 11. That's the biggest lost in player numbers ever. And by a HUGE margin.
Don't quote me on this, but my guess is that the biggest losses to player numbers seem to be in trade leagues. Both SC and HC trade, I believe have lost the highest amount of players. I believe SSF leagues weren't hit as bad.
Obviously, this is all speculation, I've got no numbers to support these claims. It's only guesses right now. But they are mainly based on the overall economy and how slow it's moving. Items I bought last league for 1 ex have 4 copies up and they cost 12 ex now. Streamers are putting up 15+ ex crafts on trade that they have had up for 5 days straight et.c. The economy simply doesn't seem to move right now.

Your experience with selling bases is troublesome. Selling bases always drop of in power as the league progresses but the prices you're explaining are actually insane. As you mentioned, things like Shaper/Elder Bone Helmets should be in high demand since 30% are playing summoners right now.

But as said, it just looks like there's not enough players to buy what you're farming.

You should probably change farming strategies. For very long it seems like GGG wants mappers to make less currency then they've done in previous leagues. During Ritual we were used to easily farm ~10 ex/hour. In Ultimatum this metric went down to around 5-6 ex/hour doing high end mapping strategies.

During all this time Flippers and Crafters have always been making more than 20 ex/hour. I've always been against it, but I see little reason to not be a hideoutwarrior at this point. Be a Hideoutwarrior for 1 week, accumilate a couple of Mirrors and then start playing the league seems to be the optimal way to play. I do prefer to grind thousands of maps and kill monsters, but it just feels like these type of mapping strategies just seem to get worse every league. In this case, not because GGG nerfed them though. But as an unintended consequence of more than 50% of the playerbase quitting the league during leaguestart.

(🌸=◡=)

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bustr wrote:

What Economy are you even talking about? The League is basically dead.
Also stop pretending you farming T19 60% Solo, you wouldn't even be able to sustain the costs of doing that.

I think this is the reason behind his post. He ISN'T able to sustain the cost of his maps because no one is buying his bases.