Harvest is great "crafting revised" and should be kept in the game

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Pizzarugi wrote:

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I_NO wrote:

You can literally bypass the RNG as well but apparently most of you don't know how to do that which pisses me off even further even in SSF just watch a fucking streamer mainly Alkaiser probably.

Maybe rich elite players wouldn't be upset about poor players wanting a way to bypass currency gates if they taught them how to be rich like them. You, for example, could be doing this board a lot more good if you provided tips on how to make currency instead of typing out the same "mUh ItUm EdItUr" response whenever someone defends Harvest.

And you did. You only mentioned a name, but it's something. Let's expand on that. What does Alkaiser offer to help players learn how to make currency?

Why do I have to teach you? Learn watch a streamer research it's what I did why can't people do that? Why can't you do that? If you can take the time to learn and be rewarded for it do it don't sit there and whine and go please teach me when there's so many resources.

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Pizzarugi wrote:

Spoiler

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I_NO wrote:

You can literally bypass the RNG as well but apparently most of you don't know how to do that which pisses me off even further even in SSF just watch a fucking streamer mainly Alkaiser probably.

Maybe rich elite players wouldn't be upset about poor players wanting a way to bypass currency gates if they taught them how to be rich like them. You, for example, could be doing this board a lot more good if you provided tips on how to make currency instead of typing out the same "mUh ItUm EdItUr" response whenever someone defends Harvest.

And you did. You only mentioned a name, but it's something. Let's expand on that. What does Alkaiser offer to help players learn how to make currency?

There are currently only 2 ways to bypass the RNG:

1) Brute force it by encountering "MOAR HARVESTS" than the average player - you can fast 8 on Atolls to search for Harvest, and also check Zana for example, though you get also limited by hitting the "RIGHT" RNG for the "RIGHT" mod on the "RIGHT" item - it helps to have a few "projects" to work on in the same time

2) Get some $$$ to start, then hunt the Discord TFT and instantly switch in the search of the desired Harvest craft, and you can be "done" with an item in "hours/days".

Any other time, as @sidtherat explained, you're still at RNGs "mercy"...

From a monetary perspective, Harvest crafts are the "better" currency these days, as some amount already to multiple EX, so you get $$$ by actually selling the crafts, just like in Heist the best "profit" was by running duped blueprints to LITERALLY PRINT CURRENCY.

And I still think that if you actually pick up rares, you can find "decent" 2-3 mods that synergize more often since 3.10 in my humble experience, so everyone going "base only" misses on "good enough" loot that are the basis needed to manage yourself even vs endgame.

It's also a problem of expectations.

IF you want the best, you need to sink TIME and target exactly what you need, you need to LEARN how to do that via guides or own trial/error, and run content to actually encounter it...

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I_NO wrote:

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Pizzarugi wrote:

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I_NO wrote:

You can literally bypass the RNG as well but apparently most of you don't know how to do that which pisses me off even further even in SSF just watch a fucking streamer mainly Alkaiser probably.

Maybe rich elite players wouldn't be upset about poor players wanting a way to bypass currency gates if they taught them how to be rich like them. You, for example, could be doing this board a lot more good if you provided tips on how to make currency instead of typing out the same "mUh ItUm EdItUr" response whenever someone defends Harvest.

And you did. You only mentioned a name, but it's something. Let's expand on that. What does Alkaiser offer to help players learn how to make currency?

Why do I have to teach you? Learn watch a streamer research it's what I did why can't people do that? Why can't you do that? If you can take the time to learn and be rewarded for it do it don't sit there and whine and go please teach me when there's so many resources.

Then you can sit here and stay mad while more people continue to ask for more ways to access the endgame that isn't gated behind needing a massive currency investment. You choose to sit here and complain about others when you, someone who knows how to beat the system, refuse to share your knowledge on how.

Help make the change you want to see in these forums. NPCing about the item editor doesn't fix anything. :>

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sofocle10000 wrote:

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TorsteinTheFallen wrote:

Spoiler

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I_NO wrote:

The fuck is this it's an item editor it's not crafting LOL literally printing money as I type create remake create remake cha-ching items aren't special anymore.

Anyone can make them there's no RNG involved if you know how to completely kill it off which most harvest people do the people thinking there's RNG involved is delusional LOL maybe yourself as well w/e the case is.

Doesn't matter it's going to be tuned and I'll be happy.

invalids everything my as well just say path of harvest nothing is worth doing in terms of power and money/ Progress people playing the victims hahahah that's funny.

So i was right, you feel less special. Ok, just wanted to know the reason.

She is also correct.

The "trivialization" of the "item editor" though comes from having a method to bypass the Harvest limits.

Make the Harvest mods account for item transfer and apply a 24H delay for next Harvest craft - heck, even scale it to be larger for the increasing Harvest mods applied - and you instantly LOCK perfect items to a later introduction on the market.

Sure, you can rush SOLO progression, but that should be RNG dependent, and even if you work on multiple items, you still get a large enough hit in efficiency.

Address PERFECT values occurrence and we might get to see the perfect Harvest mirror worthy items later than 1-2 months on the market.

The good thing is that this will keep current progression for the casuals and the normal players.

To create even more incentive, they can also add better item mods to T0 tier DROP ONLY, so you have to get the desired mod, on the desired base first by actually LOOTING IT.

Make those have increasing chance to disappear when Maven/Awakened orbed and let the 1% of the 1% waste both their time and currency to hit the perfect elevated awakened influenced mirror items, and simply adjust to rates to account for the most efficient methods - hundreds player guilds working on the desired outcomes (it simply needs to be slowed to be reached around 2 months in the league mark, and that will also enhance player retention, as long as the incentives are there, and the league mechanics are decent)...

Let me put it simply

-Harvest brings balance in terms of lowering the threshold needed to play in the endgame. Therefore more people can experience it. This is the paramount around game should be balanced and not what 1% of uber elite wants.

-Having 20 mill dps or 120mill ABSOLUTELY makes no difference. There is a passing point at which it doesn't matter anymore how much deeps you have. You are going to stomp anyway.

-^^ related to this, take your 9L minion helmets, 1K dps foil, axe, sai, driftwood shanks and knock yoursef out with it. I won't mind at all.

-build variety has never been better! Meta doesn't mean a thing to experienced player who wants to play something else because he can do that now without pouring truckload of currency in it.

First they took from us hybrid mods like Fortify + inc phys damage. Then old Multimod, which was everything that average player ever needed.
Now you want to take away Harvest???

And no, INO is not right at all. She makes fat $$$ by giving bossing services. So when more people get power to tackle the endgame, her income drops. So she muh muh drops hate on Harvest here.

It's far from item editing and "no rng" is pure bs. What is true is that now it's not complete gamble.
Crafting gear with Harvest is pretty expensive and if i'm not min/maxing particular char i would rather invest it into new one. But this accounts for low to mid tier players, it's cheap for elite.
Again, f the elite with their arrogance and nolife in PoE. I could easily compete with any of them if i had time and will to do it.
Difference is i would never advocate to take away the possibilities from players that are not on that level.

Harvest is a good step forward it just needs more refinement or just bring back the old mods and multimod.

"You can bypass RNG"
"No RNG involved"

Running Atolls with Zana missions non stop, I'm yet to see a remove/add life...

i've not had a straight typed exalt so far this league :/ I can't see how anybody low playtime enjoys this implementation if you are casual you might make one item in the entire league.

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frostzor27 wrote:

"You can bypass RNG"
"No RNG involved"

Running Atolls with Zana missions non stop, I'm yet to see a remove/add life...

What was meant was "You can bypass RNG if you break the game through trade or other means first to get very rich, and then use a third-party website to search for people selling crafts in a way that isn't supported by GGG, hand over your items to random strangers multiple times in a row, hope to not get scammed, actually don't get scammed, and kinda still get a bit lucky".

Except for a handful of very specific crafts that due to how the item system works, can actually be forced - if you buy the appropriate crafts.

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Draegnarrr wrote:

i've not had a straight typed exalt so far this league :/ I can't see how anybody low playtime enjoys this implementation if you are casual you might make one item in the entire league.

A large fraction of casual players won't even make a single item the entire league.

Guys, please try to understand GGG’s basic business model: more players playing leagues for longer means more mtx purchases.

Players will get bored and leave the game much sooner if it isn’t extremely challenging to obtain endgame gear; it’s that simple. This is what the data has always shown, no matter what any of us say anecdotally, which is why GGG always gates power behind grind and RNG.

GGG needs to keep us around, which us why they WILL nerf the crap out of harvest. We would all get to get slammed SO hard in other ways if harvest stayed as-is, and all other league mechanics would sit neglected. We’d be gated out of everything fun. Casuals would be hurt the most, by far; the current boost to them is an illusion they need to see past.

Deterministic crafting is great, but GGG truly messed up the implementation both in harvest league and now.

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demon9675 wrote:

Guys, please try to understand GGG’s basic business model: more players playing leagues for longer means more mtx purchases.

Players will get bored and leave the game much sooner if it isn’t extremely challenging to obtain endgame gear; it’s that simple. This is what the data has always shown, no matter what any of us say anecdotally, which is why GGG always gates power behind grind and RNG.

yet they 'destroy' this business model themselves allowing (for years) builds that bypass any gear progression - summoners. you cannot even harvest craft minion gear..

there are dozens of 'no gear' required endgame viable builds out there. and they wont destroy them, significant part of the playerbase cannot play without crutches at all.. so they cannot remove them. harvest can be used to 'fix' crap builds (melee is much better with 900pdps 2h..) but good builds dont need it