The recent build/ascendancy balance is hilarious

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AbilityPoints wrote:

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Vendetta wrote:

Pitty lately I can only play necromancer, since, I don't like male chars, Ranger has become nearly unplayable , scion has not recieved any kind of love since forever.

The only builds out there are some varitions of necromancer or VD , like 4 builds tops for scion, and the rest are iMPALE something, or bulky mana bald guys. Shame.

Raider and Pathfinder are both still good and versatile. Admit it you just want to play a OP Ascendency and spam minions. Nothing wrong with that but you're wrong about Ranger.

https://poe.ninja/challenge/builds

really???

Pathfinder is borderline broken solely because of how broken flask is. But raider and deadeye is bottom tier.

4.2k hp LMFAO

ofc impales do more damage

im not sure if you are trolling or just bad at the game

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demonstorm wrote:

Can anyone explain to me how is it possible for a bow build to be infinitely more powerful as a champion (an ascendancy that should be general purpose for physical builds) than the archetype ascendancy, deadeye?

I've invested several exalts into a bow deadeye and I barely tickle guardians. With my champion impale build, I destroy them in 2 seconds. MOREOVER, my deadeye dies in 2 hits at most, despite fortify in bottle, 4.2k hp and a lot of evasion/dodge (this doesn't help if you get hit, yes, which is another problem of its own), while my champion can facetank a ton of stuff.

I've been playing deadeye since I can remember and this is the second time (first one being in metamorph) that I've rage quit off my elemental bow build due to how miserable the damage/survivability is. It's disappointing to be honest.

I know this may seem like a rage post (it is btw), but I can't possibly fathom how things got to this point. Monsters have been buffed ad infinitum alongside physical builds, while they had the audacity to nerf tornado shot / elemental jewels into the ground. Meta rotation is one thing. This isn't it.

The game is basically broken since 3.6 OR GGG is doing it on purpose to skew the MTX sales (Remember the new cyclone MTX just before they killed it???)

I tried to make a few Marauder builds this league and they were still worthless after 10 ex invested in each and reusing a lot of gears. None felt good.

- GGG still can't design melee so it does not feel bad. When finally cyclone felt good, it was "too good" and they destroyed it.
- GGG still responds by nerfing the most popular builds instead of addressing the real game unbalance. It is NOT a good design to base the difficulty on one-shot or shotgun deaths.
- Minions builds are fun for a group of players but now the "minions" ascendancy (necromancer) is used for all sort of builds and GGG will messed it up and makes minions not fun. Exactly like they did with HoA that was used with the "wrong" ascendancy.
- Casters build are kind in a funny place now. they are mosty used not with a witch ascendancy but with other ascendancy.
- Bow builds...well...bowers know.

Honestly, the solution is easy but of course, it won't be done: Re-spec each classes to be specialized like the marauder one (Tank, crazy berzerker and fire master). Witch should have a pure minions, pure spells and a pure Energy shield. Spiritual Aid node needs to go away. marauder should be the two-handed big boy, the Duelist should be the dual wield specialist, the Shadow should be the claw guy. Then, one node in each ascendancy should be double damage with two-handed for marauder, double speed for the duelist with dual wielding and double critical chance/damage with claws for the Shadow. That would resolve a lot of Melee issues.

Anyway, I know it is a lost of time...

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kestak wrote:

The game is basically broken since 3.6 OR GGG is doing it on purpose to skew the MTX sales (Remember the new cyclone MTX just before they killed it???)

...

- GGG still can't design melee so it does not feel bad. When finally cyclone felt good, it was "too good" and they destroyed it.

"Killed"? "Destroyed"?

I know certain people can't debate or make a point without idiotic exaggerations, but come on?`Cyclone is, yet again, the league's most used skill. It can 'easily' destroy all content in the game, better than 99% of all melee skills.

So when you say it doesn't feel good, it's "destroyed" and "killed", I wonder how easy you want the game to be? I wonder what kind of AoE and damage it takes for you to "feel good"?

I agree with you that melee as a whole needs some work, but cyclone is one of the melee skills that feels good. Hell, even the stun nerf was OK in my mind, as it's pretty easy these days (for most ascendancies) to get stun immunity.

"Destroyed"... Ok.

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Phrazz wrote:

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kestak wrote:

The game is basically broken since 3.6 OR GGG is doing it on purpose to skew the MTX sales (Remember the new cyclone MTX just before they killed it???)

...

- GGG still can't design melee so it does not feel bad. When finally cyclone felt good, it was "too good" and they destroyed it.

"Killed"? "Destroyed"?

I know certain people can't debate or make a point without idiotic exaggerations, but come on?`Cyclone is, yet again, the league's most used skill. It can 'easily' destroy all content in the game, better than 99% of all melee skills.

So when you say it doesn't feel good, it's "destroyed" and "killed", I wonder how easy you want the game to be? I wonder what kind of AoE and damage it takes for you to "feel good"?

I agree with you that melee as a whole needs some work, but cyclone is one of the melee skills that feels good. Hell, even the stun nerf was OK in my mind, as it's pretty easy these days (for most ascendancies) to get stun immunity.

"Destroyed"... Ok.

Greetings,

You are right, I just checked and indeed Cyclone is the most used melee skill. I do apologize to have written a mistaken fact.

I would like to clarify what I wrote because well...It did not encompass what I wanted to write very well (English is my third learnt language).

Molten Strike was good, then Cyclone was good for the average player. Both skills were incredible for the dedicated player.

Now, to be able to play most of the content (Let's say up to T15, for the sake of the discussion, knowing that the top percentile of the average players barely makes it to red maps and the remaining does not even make it to yellow maps, GGG stats, not mine), those skills do not work and the average player will revert to casters type skills or "worse": minions.

I do believe GGG panders to the high end players and the average player is let hanging. The dept of the knowledge of the game is really getting done the challenges. I do not have the time to explore the diversity of the builds and each league I learn a little bit more.

Thank you

meanwhile on reddit they praise the diversity of viable builds because
necro
occultist
champion
gladiator
saboteur
and i think juggernaut or berserker

are able to participate in a ssf hc race

I know its so very very hard there...but doesnt it show how poor other ascendancys do compared to those?
how much a ranger has to give to get on par with a saboteur only wearing his pants is a bit ridicoulus.

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Tolerantzdestr0yer wrote:

I know its so very very hard there...but doesnt it show how poor other ascendancys do compared to those?
how much a ranger has to give to get on par with a saboteur only wearing his pants is a bit ridicoulus.

No not really, everything is a choice and frequently players objectives aren't the same. SSF HC requires specific build requirements that aren't met by even a majority of SC builds. As a result their balance will always look substantially different to the norm and won't tell you much about overall balance.

That doesn't give them a pass however, you can do all the content as any ascendancy even on HC but its much more difficult as the worst vs the best. This is the metric they need to look at for improvements, many people disagree about which are the best ascendancies but almost everyone will agree on which ones are the worst.

This same approach is required for the passive tree planning/areas, rangers haven't been happy for league after league yet its still trashy over there when many improvements have been made to witch and beefboi over the years.

Edit: Also going back to the initial point many of the listed ascendancies are there because of how powerful skills are rather than whats offered, so instead of going I want to play trickster OK now what skill? Its I want to play Essence Drain whats best? Trickster.

This is the biggest failing of ranger currently, the skills you'd choose deadeye/raider for aren't popular so they fail at both hurdles of skill power and individual ascendancy power.

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kestak wrote:

Now, to be able to play most of the content (Let's say up to T15, for the sake of the discussion, knowing that the top percentile of the average players barely makes it to red maps and the remaining does not even make it to yellow maps, GGG stats, not mine), those skills do not work

They do not work?

I've played 4 different cycloners the last two leagues, non of them CoC, all of them weapon-scaling, and I've had no problems doing all content. And I am no 'pro', and consider my skills pretty average. My knowledge may be above average, though. Hell, I even did 100% delirium maps, even though I struggled to do them deathless.

Are there better/safer/more powerful options out there? Of course. But to say that cyclone does "not work", is just wrong. Cyclone feels good, plays good and is nicely balanced. And you can 'easily' play it as Berserker, Slayer, Champion, Gladiator, Pathfinder, Raider and even Juggernaut. Hell, Assassin and Trickster would probably also be OK, even though I haven't tried it myself. The rest of the melee skills, on the other hand, have a way to go. Well, most of them.

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Draegnarrr wrote:

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Tolerantzdestr0yer wrote:

I know its so very very hard there...but doesnt it show how poor other ascendancys do compared to those?
how much a ranger has to give to get on par with a saboteur only wearing his pants is a bit ridicoulus.

No not really, everything is a choice and frequently players objectives aren't the same. SSF HC requires specific build requirements that aren't met by even a majority of SC builds. As a result their balance will always look substantially different to the norm and won't tell you much about overall balance.

That doesn't give them a pass however, you can do all the content as any ascendancy even on HC but its much more difficult as the worst vs the best. This is the metric they need to look at for improvements, many people disagree about which are the best ascendancies but almost everyone will agree on which ones are the worst.

This same approach is required for the passive tree planning/areas, rangers haven't been happy for league after league yet its still trashy over there when many improvements have been made to witch and beefboi over the years.

Edit: Also going back to the initial point many of the listed ascendancies are there because of how powerful skills are rather than whats offered, so instead of going I want to play trickster OK now what skill? Its I want to play Essence Drain whats best? Trickster.

This is the biggest failing of ranger currently, the skills you'd choose deadeye/raider for aren't popular so they fail at both hurdles of skill power and individual ascendancy power.

you have a fair point there but im not 100% convinced about the balancing being fine

I wasn't really saying it was fine, more that they could definitely do better. You just can't use a single metric to determine balance its more that you have to do a cross section of the ascendancies and skills together then take it apart with real game knowledge to find out whats busted and what isn't.