I think that the Item Rarity Mod should be removed.

Increased Item Rarity and Increased Item Quantity are at the heart of PoE's RNG system. Say you play for 1 hour per day for a week:

- With a IIR + IIQ set, you can clear 5 areas per day, because your DPS and/or survivability is less, but you get better drops, while also getting less XP.

- Without IIR and IIQ, you can clear 8 areas per day, not getting as good drops, but getting more XP, and probably a similar amount of currency drops. Killing more monsters is like an effective increase in Item Quantity.

However, the whole "get better drops" and "not getting as good drops" is still based entirely on probability. There is no normalization factor in loot. No matter how much IIQ and IIR you have, it's still RANDOM, period. So that means someone with insane levels of IIQ and IIR can, in theory, get entirely shitty drops, even throughout their lifetime of play. That's just how these Diablo mechanics work.

Now, I personally solo with a IIR and IIQ set that totally gimps my DPS and survivability, because I like to take my time and fully explore maps, so I'm clearing a lot less areas in an hour.

I actually totally agree with completely removing MF, but that isn't going to happen to so i would settle for removing IIR instead.

The arguments in this thread mostly say, this game needs no skill, all you need to do is stack the best gear. That is qualified with: why are you surprised, diablo is like that.

This is plain silly. Look at the game, just watch yourself playing. There is a degree of user skill when you are playing. You can literally move out of the way of fire balls, sparks, ice cannons, beating vaal requires you dodge a lot of stuff etc etc. Yes you can increase survivability with gear, but the game requires you to have skill.

What is being suggested is to farm endlessly and to increase your survivability so highly that you don't need skill anymore. That is dull and that is your standard MMORPG. This game wasn't created for that.

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SupaMonkey wrote:

What is being suggested is to farm endlessly and to increase your survivability so highly that you don't need skill anymore. That is dull and that is your standard MMORPG. This game wasn't created for that.

I've already offered a sound logical argument that Increased Item Rarity doesn't really penalize people for not using it. It sounds like you're more specifically against the idea of requiring better and better gear as you progress throughout the game, and the probable chance you will have to go off and farm for said gear; instead of it just coming to you naturally as you play the game however you play the game.

Removing Increased Item Rarity will not change this. All it would (mostly) do is penalize players like myself, who like to slowly take their time and fully clear maps, as well as builds that clear slowly and really can't be helped very much with super gear anyway.

I referred to gear as part of your "Effective Level" before. Are you saying that a Level 10 character (XP Level) should be able to beat the Act 3 Boss with "enough skill"? And even the Act 3 Boss on Merciless? Because this isn't how traditional RPGs work, and it certainly isn't how Diablo ARPGs work; gear is like another leveling mechanism in most RPGs. GGG would have to basically create a whole other game to create the type of RPG you are thinking of.

You talk about 'skill', but that's a rather abstract concept. What is skill? To me, 'skill' is about three things:
- Strategy (sometimes considered "meta")
- Tactics (from encounter to encounter)
- 'Twitch' Reaction ability and Spatial Awareness

RPGs in general normally lack 'twitch' found in games like Call of Duty. ARPGs have more, but still focus much more on Tactics and Strategy, than reaction ability. In FPSes you can run around killing everyone with the weakest, most ridiculous weapons, if you have the good enough 'twitch' and spatial awareness. It's by the very nature of RPGs that this type of ability should not be focused on, if not glossed over completely.

edit: syntax, additional thoughts

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generalmx wrote:

I've already offered a sound logical argument that Increased Item Rarity doesn't really penalize people for not using it.

Yes it does. Sure you get more DPS, but that is only useful until you hit a wall and then you can't progress because you don't have the gear. You don't get the gear if you don't stack IIR.

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Ferumbras wrote:

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xSiCKHeADx wrote:

MF is fine as it is. I like this quantity and quality, brings fresh air and more costumization.

If it was up to me, I'd bring charms to the game and fill up inventory to the max. Hardcore D2 style!

A) YOu do MF runs: you are equipted for MF
B) You are geared with DPS: It's for lvling
C) All in one is a compromise / hybrid.

I'd bring Charms so you'd have extra customization and option to go full dps or go with more soace and loot stuff.

Giving you all without taking something away is just no fun (look at D3).

I am seriously losing faith in the gaming community, every minute I keep on reading topics like this... Quantity and quality bring NO fresh air and NO customization. If you value your sanity and your time (not all of us play 12+ hours a day you know), you have no choice but to gear for IIQ/IIR.

MR I have a real life and every1 around me that has different point of view are "strange".

I do have a job at which I must be 8-10h a day. So I can play a game for 3-4h max a day. And when I come back I do like to play a game where not everything is given to me like in D3...

Just because someone like features where you need to sacrefice something to gain other thing does not make him "be worth of lost hope". I can't be #1 on ladder, I can't race every run, I can't do 10 alts or do tons of stuff this game offers, just because, day has only 24h. Stop judging me just because I have a different point of view on things. I just posted my oppinion on the system and was not bashing no1 so I expect same from others.

I seriously hop that OP opened this thread far too soon, it's not april fools' day yet!

Also, this is not d3 forums, so please don't troll PoE forum with useless crap. Drops are fine, IQ and IIR are fine and working properly, i don't see any possible reason to remove IIR just for the sake of your pleasure.

With all respect, this thread should be locked to prevent more trolling.

So people actually want IIR then?

D3 said it best:

Gear Switching is Dumb
Here's a mechanic to cap your magic find if you play enough.
Enjoy.

I'm not a fan of magic find, never have been, even since the days when some classes/builds could stack it to insane degrees in Diablo 2 and others couldn't afford to stack it at all.

To me, ARPGs have always been about killing monsters, and so magic find should naturally be incorporated as a part of that. You gear for survival and for killing, and the more effective you are at killing, the more loot you should find. It should go hand in hand.

Having a separate stat that increases your loot is strange and detracts from what powerful loot should really be about. It shouldn't be about having a stat that gives you more loot.

But I doubt it'll change.

The logic is flawed in this thread.

Increased item rarity increases the odds of a mob dropping a higher quality items (quality as in magic, rare or unique). NOT item level or stats THOSE are still random.

Increased item quantity increases the amount of drops per mob, NOT the quality.

Just in case someone doesnt understand loot rolls, here is how it works:

First the die is rolled to determine how many items will drop. This value is between 1 and 100 and is a single roll.
Each mob has it's own "item table" which determine at what rolls the monster will drop what loot. Increased quantity increases this.
After the amount of loot is determined, each item is then rolled to see what quality (normal, magic, rare, unique) the item is. This is increased by item rarity and is rolled per item.
The stats these items have is random and you cant effect it.

Example: a skeleton with the following item table (not actual ingame numbers);
rolls between 1 and 80 = no loot
rolls between 80 and 95 = 1 item
rolls between 95 and 100 = 2 items

Now we add in increased quantity. What happens is the odds of getting items changes. So lets say you have 100% increased item quantity. This means you chance for 2 items is doubled from 5 to 10, and 1 item is increased from 15 to 30. As a result, the item table now looks like this:
rolls between 1 and 60 = no loot
rolls between 60 and 90 = 1 item
rolls between 90 and 100 = 2 items

Item quality (magic, rare, unique) works in the same way as quantity:
rolls between 1 and 80 = normal
rolls between 80 and 95 = magic
rolls between 95 and 99.95 = rare
rolls between 99.95 and 100 = unique

Once again with 100% increased quality:
rolls between 1 and 60 = normal
rolls between 60 and 90 = magic
rolls between 90 and 99.90 = rare
rolls between 99.9 and 100 = unique

The main issue is that increased quantity also increases rarity (not because you get BETTER, rolls but you get MORE rolls as you get MORE items). Where is rarity gets you the SAME rolls with HIGHER chance to be of higher quality.

The best way to get items, is still by combining both. But if you have to chose between the 2, also go for quantity as it also increases currency drops which rarity does not.